Hybrid project

[Hillbilly voodoo]

So I have had this design in my head for along time and it’s time to make it happen. Basically a resin front half with an under spin combined with a replaceable paddle tail. I will be using a corkscrew combined with a socket for the connection. I will make a slow and fast sink model by adjusting my micro balloon/resin % in the front half. I will be making a silicone open pour mold for the tail. 
 

The hardball section I have no concerns. The soft plastic is another story because I am very green to this style. Mostly the boot size shape I want to get right. Looking for a lot of kick

any input is appropriated. Will be starting the master soon. Will be carved from wood . I plan to use lexan and putty to creat the boot

 

 

[eastman03]

I like where your head is at!  It seems that the line tie looks a bit high on the bait?  Unless this was very nose heavy, it seems like you would be getting alot of lift when reeling it in.  But i could be wrong. 

I made a hybrid (no spinner) paddle tail last year, and I was disappointed with the action in the tail.  in hindsight, i should have somehow done more testing on shape to get the action i wanted before making a mold.  That being said, I'm not really sure how to test before making a mold and just going for it.  The tail i made was large, but there was so much water resistance that it kinda gets bent straight back and doesn't thump at slow speeds.  

Your tail looks like it should work, it seems to be a fine line.   When i made the plastic soft, it would thump, but also bend back and straight at higher speeds.  When i made the plastic harder, i had to reel super fast to get it to thump.   

Honestly that was my first endeavor into soft plastics, so i'm not much help.  Just thought I'd share what I went through.  Keep us updated how this works for you!

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Might move the line tie closer to the nose but still want it so the heavier version can be jigged a little. Because it’s a resin poured front I can make it heavier if needed 

I guess worst case only the fast sink version works 

As for the tail I may screw it up too lol. All I could really find is it’s best to keep it thin near the tail so that is my plan so far. As for tail shape or size I am winging it so far. Worst case I make some different paddles and make molds of them. Then mod the original mold to except the different paddles till I get it right 

Started carving and she comes in at 7inches

Also have a twin tail hybrid that is 3/4 soft plastic in the works but very different design 

I have 11lbs of silicone and 4l of plastisol to play with till I get these hybrid designs working 

So I am all set to screw things up 

[SlowFISH]

For paddle tails /swimbait - try to keep the section before the tail thin.... as the thinnest section will likely be where it bends the most.  Also width of the tail is your friend - wider will give more kick in my experience.  Keitech swimbaits are a real good place to look for inspiration.

 

   J.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

1 minute ago, SlowFISH said:

For paddle tails /swimbait - try to keep the section before the tail thin.... as the thinnest section will likely be where it bends the most.  Also width of the tail is your friend - wider will give more kick in my experience.  Keitech swimbaits are a real good place to look for inspiration.

 

   J.

Thanks for the advice this is the kind of info I am looking for

[eastman03]

Makes sense. My tail is quite thick through the shaft. I think I can add a bit to my mould and thin that section out to let it kick.

looks good!

[Frank]

Just a thought on the tail, if you want anything thin you will not be able to open pour it. Would need to be injected. 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Hand pour only 

plenty of hand poured swimbaits out there that do the trick so I should be able to make one work 

[JD_mudbug]

Once you have the head carved, how about using some of the paddle tails already on the market and cutting  shaving them to fit with an Xacto knife. If your like me, you probably already own a bunch. This might get you in the ballpark without much effort and cut down on the amount of work. Lots of them available for $5 and under a pack. It would only waste one bait out of a pack. Even if a particular bait doesn't work with your head, you can just fish the pack normally. Once you find a paddletail that gives you the action you want, you can make mold that combines the tail dimensions of the existing bait with a front end to match up to your head.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

43 minutes ago, JD_mudbug said:

Once you have the head carved, how about using some of the paddle tails already on the market and cutting  shaving them to fit with an Xacto knife. If your like me, you probably already own a bunch. This might get you in the ballpark without much effort and cut down on the amount of work. Lots of them available for $5 and under a pack. It would only waste one bait out of a pack. Even if a particular bait doesn't work with your head, you can just fish the pack normally. Once you find a paddletail that gives you the action you want, you can make mold that combines the tail dimensions of the existing bait with a front end to match up to your head.

If my first attempt fails I will give your option a go

Unfortunately big swim baits are not that cheap here or readily available. I actually don’t have any big enough for this projects on hand either pike bit all the tails off lol

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Ok now that I am on my set off from work I am back to work on this project. I think I am on my 4th master just because the others did not do it for me for one reason or another lol

I am working on the paddle tail section and debating if I have it thin enough near the paddle. Also debating if the paddle will be wide enough using just the existing wood on my carving blank or should I widen it. I have a 1inch by 1 1/4 in block left to carve a paddle. I have a plan to make it wider if needed 

 

[eastman03]

Looks pretty good!  I wish I could say if it will work, very hard to tell until it is finally in it's plastic form.  I think this would have some good thump to it. 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Thanks I have also decided that I will make a twin tail section to go with this body once I get the paddle figured out. 

also debating on switching the willow blade to the rear and move the treble hook forward to decrease the odds of the hook interfering with the blade

like normal the end lure won’t look like the idea sketch lol

[azsouth]

Any new design is going to have hiccups, Just remember to take good notes. Resin will make it easier to copy each bait exactly. Tail design can/will have a large impact on how the bait moves, thicker tail section has a tendency to move the whole bait while the thinner tail section has less whole body movement with more deliberate tail movement.  

[Hillbilly voodoo]

8 minutes ago, azsouth said:

Any new design is going to have hiccups, Just remember to take good notes. Resin will make it easier to copy each bait exactly. Tail design can/will have a large impact on how the bait moves, thicker tail section has a tendency to move the whole bait while the thinner tail section has less whole body movement with more deliberate tail movement.  

With the tail section do you mean the paddle it self or the tail section before it?

 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Ok here is where I am at for overall shape. Before cutting it in half, creating the connection point and slotting the front of the master to except the jig hook. Of course sanding/sealer too

if anyone notices any issues with the tail let me know because the goal is to mold that section tomorrow 

[SlowFISH]

You honestly won't know till you try - but I think your tail might just glide behind the body and not "flap/kick"..... but that's pure speculation and I've been wrong before on what happen with something i made... but now that I got the disclaimer out of the way - I think of tails like a crankbait lips to some degree.... you want it to force the tail left/right due to the water forcing it..... your tail is fairly "slick" smooth and rounded on the front... I'd think that's gonna help the water move around it more than force the tail to move out of the waters way (if that makes sense).  Also - I'd look to make it wider.... again - like a crankbait in some ways - a wide fat bill usually give a wide wobble - and smaller / narrower bills tighter wobble to the point if its too tin (left to right) it doesn't move at all... Looking at you master - I don't think length of the tail is your friend here.... as if the tail "lifts" instead of being forced left/right the water will move around it rather than move the tail/.

I know the above probably isn't scientifically accurate - but I've built a bunch of keitech type baits of various sizes from 5" down to 1.5" and above is what I've learned doing it. 

Also - if your looking at your first mold as the "test mold" - maybe undersize the tail a bit... then carve/dremel out the tail area in the mold deeper/wider after you make a few baits.... this way you can make 3-4 baits, mod tail - make 3-4 more, mod again.... do this a few times and test... then just pick the tail shape that worked the best... I find myself cutting my first mold up a bunch of times to make things work just right... much easier to keep cutting/grinding then trying to fill.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Thanks SlowFISH

I will go with my original plan of cutting a tail from lexan for the master and go wider 

[azsouth]

6 hours ago, Hillbilly voodoo said:

Ok here is where I am at for overall shape. Before cutting it in half, creating the connection point and slotting the front of the master to except the jig hook. Of course sanding/sealer too

if anyone notices any issues with the tail let me know because the goal is to mold that section tomorrow 

section before the tail, fat if you want to effect the whole bait, skinny if you want just the tail to move without affecting the front of the bait. I personally use both depending on what the fish want.

[jigmeister]

Looking at your bait I'm thinking the "Big Hammer" style (wide tail with big kick) swimbait tail would be a good fit . You can purchase and try different style swimbaits (tails) a lot faster than you can prototype your own . Once you determine which one swims the way you want you can pattern your tail mold loosely based on the one that works best for you  .

[JD_mudbug]

Before you cut that wood master, you could mold it to make multiple masters. That way you can experiment on where to make the cut for the molding of the two halves. The original sketch looks like 60% resin front half and 40% paddle tail. The longer the paddle tail section the more it can flex and kick. If you mold 3 masters from the one uncut master, you could try a 50/50 or 40/60 ratio of front-to-back sections in addition to 60/40 sketch.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

She is already cut(45/55 split roughly), jig hook epoxied in, joint made, and will start sanding. I decided to swap the treble and blade locations so I will add the hardware for the blade with epoxy latter. After looking at some of the swimbaits I have around I decided to give the tail a chance. I did thin out the boot and flatten the surface to catch more water. Compared to the swimbaits I have kicking around the tail size vs thin section is wider on my hybrid. I can’t change the % on the split with this master do to hook/blade/connects demands for space

JD Mudbug

my plan is if I don’t like this tail is to pour a few out of resin and modify them. If the original mold is not what I want I will just cut off the paddle end. After that mod it into a 2piece mold I can add different mold sections of paddles. I plan to do this so I can add a twin tail option if I feel I am happy with the design anyway 

soft plastic rookie but I have figured a few things out screwing up silicone molds with hard baits 

all the input is appreciated guys 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Here is how it sits now

[azsouth]

I believe that will do well. 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Action works if anything I could make the section before the tail thicker and paddle a little shorter. Tail swings well but bends back more than I wanted. Wife says leave it she likes it lol

The failure is at the joint. The corkscrew idea is no good the plastic tears when twisting it on. I resorted to krazy glue for testing 

So back to the drawing board for connecting the joint. Thinking maybe a barbed piece of metal 

Anyone have a proven concept for the joint on a hybrid besides glue?