Getting crank baits to hunt

[azsouth]

I have figured out how to get crank baits to hunt and have sent it to companies, but with no luck. So kind of at a cross roads here.... I do not have the money for a patent.

So make it public or just sit on it?

All comments welcome.  

[Vodkaman]

I have approached companies with good ideas in the past but they don't even reply.

Every shallow crank is capable of hunting, but it is dependent on velocity. The trick is to build a hunter that operates at your required speed.

I have published my hunting solution a few years back, I hope for interest's sake that yours is different.

You could try the patent route, it is not too expensive to do, but will suck up your life savings while defending the patent. If you don't build and sell the bait and vigorously defend the patient then what is it all for! Keep in mind that if the idea is simple and the lure successful, the Chinese will have it on the market in a couple of months.

Also, what ever it is that makes the hunt has to be unique, it cannot be a certain arrangement or configuration of what builders are already doing. You cannot patent a certain lip size on a certain body shape.

I would love to see your solution, but I am not going to advise you to go public, I am just outlining your options.

Dave

[UKandy]

Dave have you a link to your published solution? I would expect it's a good read.

Andy.

[azsouth]

Just to explain better this is not just an idea, I have actual working prototypes and has worked on four different baits so far.

I believe this will work on just about any crankbait. 

[UKandy]

3 minutes ago, azsouth said:

Just to explain better this is not just an idea, I have actual working prototypes and has worked on four different baits so far.

I believe this will work on just about any crankbait. 

So did the companies actually get back to you? Sometimes its about getting to the right people! Best of luck sounds a great bait 

Andy.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Honestly I think a large portion of fisherman don’t even realize hunting is a good thing. I have one design that consistently has a hiccup in the action hot exactly hunt but more so 6inch kicks off to the side. I have had multiple fisherman ask me if I was going to tune that out of the action so it runs true. 
 

There seems to be a portion of fisherman who believe a good lure must run perfectly straight and consistent 

I wonder if this plays a roll why big companies are not biting on it on your hunting information 

[UKandy]

23 minutes ago, Hillbilly voodoo said:

Honestly I think a large portion of fisherman don’t even realize hunting is a good thing. I have one design that consistently has a hiccup in the action hot exactly hunt but more so 6inch kicks off to the side. I have had multiple fisherman ask me if I was going to tune that out of the action so it runs true. 
 

There seems to be a portion of fisherman who believe a good lure must run perfectly straight and consistent 

I wonder if this plays a roll why big companies are not biting on it on your hunting information 

Good point  that maybe explained my test results from the other day when the 2 fish went for the lure when it rolled with a side flash!

Like this hunting idea!

Andy.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

@azsouth if you want I personally know an owner of a mid size Canadian lure company that I can call directly and see what he has to say. He will give me a cut and dry no BS answers or I will make fun of him that he is a crappy fisherman lol

No promises it goes anywhere but I have the ability to by pass all the BS and talk to him directly at least. We have history so he won’t beat around the bush with me

If you are interested shoot me a PM and a description of the design( not how it’s built) and what your proposal to the company is regarding your design 

 Don’t be surprised if his response is simply that it’s not for him. Theses guys get all kinds of designs thrown at them 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

18 minutes ago, UKandy said:

Good point  that maybe explained my test results from the other day when the 2 fish went for the lure when it rolled with a side flash!

Like this hunting idea!

Andy.

There is an action that a lot of fisherman view as bad in crankbaits but it actually looks natural 

I owned an aquaculture outfit in the past and noticed a lot of of injured fish roll swimming on their side struggling to stay up right. I have trolled a crankbait that blows out and side swims at times for lake trout with good results. The lure action looks like crap by fisherman’s and lure builders standards but I always carry one when trolling lake trout. Somedays it pulls out fish when nothing else is working 

I have also had lures that had an amazing action in my mind but the fish did not agree or found them meh

I am a firm believer in letting the fish be the judge on what is a good action/color. 

[Carbite]

12 minutes ago, UKandy said:

So did the companies actually get back to you? Sometimes its about getting to the right people! Best of luck sounds a great bait 

Andy.

Definitely a right person sort of deal.  Companies have established processes for RnD and you'd probably need a higher-up to jump your idea in.  Hillbilly Voodo beat me to the punch.

Out of curiosity, is this a modification can be done to any bait, an external piece, or a style of design?

11 minutes ago, Hillbilly voodoo said:

I owned an aquaculture outfit in the past and noticed a lot of of injured fish roll swimming on their side struggling to stay up right. I have trolled a crankbait that blows out and side swims at times for lake trout with good results. The lure action looks like crap by fisherman’s and lure builders standards but I always carry one when trolling lake trout. Somedays it pulls out fish when nothing else is working 

That completely explains why my one crankbait has been producing over the rest.  It rolls (rolled, I just cracked his bill) over 90 degrees side to side, barely running true.  Must also be what Lauri Rapala was all about.

[Vodkaman]

As mentioned above, big companies will not take on hunters because of the shear volume of returns from anglers who do not understand hunting and the purpose. They will simply think that the lure is faulty.

The only way you might get a BIG company to take on the lure is if you feed it to a lower ranking pro and he starts winning tournaments with your lure. The hard part is getting a pro to believe in your lure, and I believe shallow cranks are not an all year round bait.

Dave

[Carbite]

14 minutes ago, Vodkaman said:

The only way you might get a BIG company to take on the lure is if you feed it to a lower ranking pro and he starts winning tournaments with your lure. The hard part is getting a pro to believe in your lure, and I believe shallow cranks are not an all year round bait.

Dave

A contributing factor may be that hunting is often an unstable action and blows out at high speeds.  A slow, finesse crankbait may be foreign or unpleasant to guys who prefer burning or need to cover water.

If azsouth has solved for hunting at every speed, that's really something to stand on.

[Vodkaman]

Carbite - Yes, the lure is not going to swim faster than the hunt.

Hunters make good erratic twitch baits because they are already on the edge, so it is not just about constant speed. You still have the full armoury of retrieval techniques and strategies available.

There are different degrees of hunt, from a slight, regular 6" side to side movement to something wider and more erratic and unpredictable. It is all down to the designer.

Dave

[SlowFISH]

Being a professional in product development field working for many fortune 100 companies - the overwhelming majority of companies (actually - pretty much any company big enough to have an on-staff lawyer) will never look at your design or take a meeting just to avoid lawsuits. 

Should a company already be working on something similar or have a design they finished but haven't marketed it yet - and then they view your work - whos to say who "owns" it at that point... and now the company who did all their own work is open to legal action if they proceed - even if the did all their own R&D, etc, etc... the fact someone on their R&D team saw your idea can be problematic for them. So big companies typically just avoid any and all outside input to never have to deal with a headache.

I've been a part of 2-3 projects over 20 years were our client was issued cease and desist for development work my team performed... so I know as a fact we nor did they "steal someone's idea"... yet in 2 of the cases there were prior patents issued that no reasonable person would look at the patent and our work and say is the same idea we provided the client - but the individual who owned the patent thought somehow it was the same thing and put up enough of a stink to make these companies life miserable for a few months (Both cases were thrown out - no settlement - both were just BS by someone who wanted cash for an idea nobody saw value in). In the other instance - the person claimed they showed the idea to our client years and years ago... had no proof they showed it (and we were never provided someone else work when we tackled the project).... but again - lawyers and miserable stuff followed for a few weeks until it was thrown out.

Your best bet is to find someone / a company that is small enough to speak with honestly, that has nothing in their lineup that could even be close to your idea and go from there.  

Basically - without a patent - you have risk on your end losing the idea to someone shady... that's where finding a person you can trust and connect with on a one-on-one level may be important to get something moving forward.

J.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

8 hours ago, Carbite said:

Definitely a right person sort of deal.  Companies have established processes for RnD and you'd probably need a higher-up to jump your idea in.  Hillbilly Voodo beat me to the punch.

Out of curiosity, is this a modification can be done to any bait, an external piece, or a style of design?

That completely explains why my one crankbait has been producing over the rest.  It rolls (rolled, I just cracked his bill) over 90 degrees side to side, barely running true.  Must also be what Lauri Rapala was all about.

Sometimes an oddball action is the answer to getting fish to bite sometimes it’s not

There is definitely a lot of different movements that most fisherman overlook though 

 

[Vodkaman]

SlowFISH - great post, it reminded me of the same reasons that I had encountered many years ago when I was traveling this road.

Dave

[Travis]

7 hours ago, SlowFISH said:

 So big companies typically just avoid any and all outside input to never have to deal with a headache.

Or they go to very specialized people outside their company to do their work.....

[SlowFISH]

13 hours ago, Travis said:

Or they go to very specialized people outside their company to do their work.....

Exactly - Fee for hire... every idea I hand our clients is "theirs" - not mine... J.

[Outlaw4]

I work for a large company in a product development role.

I can tell you this, the bigger the company the less they care if the product "works" right. What they need to do is sell stuff profitably good bad or otherwise. Most have great ideas internally that never see daylight due to timing, market or whatever.

Personally if i had a great bait that i could reproduce consistent quality catches  and is manufacturable, you'd be better off doing an LLC. There is enough power in social media these days to not need the big companies anymore. Its a great time for entrepreneurs imho. 

[azsouth]

Thanks for the replies everyone! just for more clarification my version has worked on Manns 1-, 1.5 and wiggle wart with a hunt that is about 3-6 inches sided to side, the only draw back at this time is the bait has to be tuned properly before adding modification. I am currently working on my 4th version of it. I intend on trying it with more baits but I only have so much time.

Yes I sent to a company and I felt they were not doing much, so they are returning them. 

[mark poulson]

9 hours ago, azsouth said:

Thanks for the replies everyone! just for more clarification my version has worked on Manns 1-, 1.5 and wiggle wart with a hunt that is about 3-6 inches sided to side, the only draw back at this time is the bait has to be tuned properly before adding modification. I am currently working on my 4th version of it. I intend on trying it with more baits but I only have so much time.

Yes I sent to a company and I felt they were not doing much, so they are returning them. 

Be careful who you share your idea with, or it will get knocked off.

 

[azsouth]

At this point I am not to worried, working with one last person if this falls through it is going to be public anyways.

[RPM]

On 4/19/2021 at 7:08 AM, azsouth said:

I have figured out how to get crank baits to hunt and have sent it to companies, but with no luck. So kind of at a cross roads here.... I do not have the money for a patent.

So make it public or just sit on it?

All comments welcome.  

azsouth, I also have experiemented with this phenomenom and I'll try to reply post or relay as best in short as possible. Dave Vodkaman peaked my interest so I challenged myself and here are my findings best described in short terms.

Building hunting crankbaits are a challenge, but with his knowledge and scientific approach it was acheivable and honestly more acheiveable than I thought, but Hunting crankbaits are not for everone! I have a fishing partner that cannot stand a hunting crankbait because they have a sweet spot for speed, maybe not his but he agreed they do have a place. I also researched this in depth but have yet to arrive at the conclusion I was looking for, so I feel your pain.

I've determined what is best for me or my application may not be best for the next angler, my partner cannot stand a wild action crankbait, he wants a crankbait that runs true and will cast and run next or hit his target more often than not.  He thinks the crankbait must be placed or cranked into areas that he can feel or see.

Hunting crankbaits are often missunderstood , but have proven very effective on bass that are looking for a wild or dying action of a bait fish with reckless abandonment thrown to the wind and simply replicate a dying baitfish living out it's last minutes, but he thinks he catches more fish cranking a bait in the lair of a healthy bass waiting for it's prey. So I have to honor that. In my studies of this phenomenom the Japaneesee have also experimented with this hunting effect and there have ben a few that developed a disc or blade if you will, that attaches to the lure that will cause the crankbait to hunt.

 There was a video posted on youtube that showed this disc or blade in action on crankbaits, not sure it's still online but I've watched it many times, my take was more on the lines of Dave's ( vodkaman) theroy, I wanted to build a crankbait that would hunt without the help of any additional attachment to keep the crankbait more natural in appearance. I sure hope you do well with your idea and wish you the best, the one thing I can conclude is I've shifted more toward the tradional crankbait simply because of our style of fishing, which is speed based, the more cast you make and the more the bass are presented a lure, the greater chance you have for catching those fish method, not saying this is for everyone, but we have also leaned toward the most accurate cast's or presentaions in front of the fish are what has produced the best for us.

 

Sorry if this not enuceated correctly, just a fishermans and lure builders point of view.

Rich 

[Travis]

Are many of todays hunting cranks  really hunters based on the lures that everyone was searching for from custom lure builders in the Carolinas and some areas of TN, 30 plus years ago .  

 

[RPM]

45 minutes ago, Travis said:

Are many of todays hunting cranks  really hunters based on the lures that everyone was searching for from custom lure builders in the Carolinas and some areas of TN, 30 plus years ago .  

 

Travis, my experience is the Hunting Cranks are NOT based on lures from the Carolina's, the lures from the Carolinas were lures created more for situational conditions, ie, depth, structure, and speed and action. More of what we are looking for targeting certain depths these days. If we could put a geographical area on Hunting cranks I would personally say it may be more from the East Tennessee area where shallow crankbaits were more prevalent or the focus.