Does this machine exist?

[UKandy]

Hi all,

I was speaking to a guy yesterday about making lures & he asked if I'd thought about using a 3d printer for making them, I said that for now I would like to stay down the resin/wood master route at present as I am still very much learning that side of things at the moment.

He then asked if there is a desktop lathe/router that would basically do the same idea as the 3d printer but by carving wood spindle blanks, to be fair I was unsure of this, but assume it would be an expensive machine to buy & some kind of cad programme would be needed to run it?

Interested to know if you guys know of any options about this, at least I will have that knowledge then 

Many thanks

Andy.

[Vodkaman]

Several people have posted 'duplicator' machines, I myself have built a couple. Computer NC control is an option, but all the machines that I have seen are manual motor driven.

Commercial duplicators are very expensive, in the region of $50K but I built mine for around $200, not brilliant, but I was very happy with the results. Try a TU search.

3D printing Is a viable option. I have designs, but I have not printed one off myself as yet. To do the job properly, you will need to master a CAD software to a reasonable standard. You will also need to get involved with densities, COV (center of volume) and COG (center of gravity), to have any chance of creating a lure that floats how you want it to do without a lot of tedious trial and error.

I hope to source a 3D printer locally one day as I have so many projects ready for printing, not just fishing. There are local printing services that I have used, but they are just too expensive.

Dave

[Chris Catignani]

I would think that one of the problems with a spindle lathe would be that the piece would have to be symmetrically straight like a baseball bat or a table leg. A lathe would not be able to cut eyes, fins, a lip...or even have a tail curving down.

I have made some lures with a 3D printer (straight PLA) and was not happy with the result. First of all, sanding PLA cant be good for the lungs. It's defiantly harder than wood. I have had some latches I made pretty much just break after a year of so outside (UV). I probably should have use something other than PLA. 3D printing is a little new to me so Im sure there is something about it I'm missing.

I do know they make a wood filament that 70%PLA and 30% wood derivative (haven't use it).

I do think eventually 3D lure making will be popular.

[Vodkaman]

Let me expand on the advantages of 3D printing of baits. Once you have a CAD model that works for you, it is little more than a push button exercise to produce more bodies.

There are various materials available, but I will not discuss further here, it is up to you to research.

The print is slow, but for a small crank bait, 4 or 5 could be printed per run on most budget machines. We are basically talking low volume production.

The HUGE advantage is that you can produce lures that are impossible by injection molding and/or casting. Features such as concave lips, lips with sharp edges, external sharp corners. You can produce 3D pectoral fins as discussed in a recent post on sculpin fish, for that extra realism.

If your intention is to one day hit the BIG time and get your lure injection molded, you can emulate the injection molding and check that the lure works before spending thousands on expensive tools, there is no money back policy on tools that produce duds.

Dave

[SlowFISH]

As most have stated - every process has it's plus/minus as with everything in this hobby - you have to pick your poison and learn to deal with the route you choose.  

If staying with a "manual/hand" method of creating lure blanks is of interest - a carving duplicator is probably what you need to look for.  This was on EBAY (https://www.ebay.com/itm/143953712063?hash=item21844f53bf:g:KpsAAOSw5VFWKTVN).  Not saying get this one - but should give you an idea of what to look for - or DIY your own.

They make CNC lathes - I've even seen small/desktop ones... but You'd still need to learn CAD and programming and unless you want to make "spook" type topwater blanks it can't handle non-spindle type shapes.

3D printing is great - has a ton of benefits - but is labor intensive if you don't already have the CAD skills - and even then you still have to process the part (sand/smooth/etc).

Realistically - if you are happy with resin baits - making one - then a mold and pouring multiples is probably the best method if you want to keep cost down to start with.

 

  J.

[Outlaw4]

I've not seen anything for spindle blanks. But there are plenty of CNC wood engravers that you could make half sides of crankbaits with to make mold masters. You could also probably make halves of any lure to though wire. I've contemplated this but never pulled the trigger and i just do low volume and like to carve lol.

[Chris Catignani]

1 hour ago, Outlaw4 said:

... and like to carve ...

I am loving the carving more and more...

[UKandy]

18 hours ago, Vodkaman said:

Several people have posted 'duplicator' machines, I myself have built a couple. Computer NC control is an option, but all the machines that I have seen are manual motor driven.

Commercial duplicators are very expensive, in the region of $50K but I built mine for around $200, not brilliant, but I was very happy with the results. Try a TU search.

3D printing Is a viable option. I have designs, but I have not printed one off myself as yet. To do the job properly, you will need to master a CAD software to a reasonable standard. You will also need to get involved with densities, COV (center of volume) and COG (center of gravity), to have any chance of creating a lure that floats how you want it to do without a lot of tedious trial and error.

I hope to source a 3D printer locally one day as I have so many projects ready for printing, not just fishing. There are local printing services that I have used, but they are just too expensive.

Dave

Hi dave, thanks for your input my friend, I have been more and more interested in the 3D printing side of things, as always though I don't want to make an expensive mistake, I will have too take a look into CAD design and see how I go with that, I've worked on a whole lot of computer softwares during my career so hopefully I could pick it up at a basic level okay.

The point you made regarding the different types of plastics has got me head scratching though! Would definitely need to do some research as I would have no idea where to start regarding materials.

Many thanks

Andy.

[UKandy]

17 hours ago, Chris Catignani said:

I would think that one of the problems with a spindle lathe would be that the piece would have to be symmetrically straight like a baseball bat or a table leg. A lathe would not be able to cut eyes, fins, a lip...or even have a tail curving down.

I have made some lures with a 3D printer (straight PLA) and was not happy with the result. First of all, sanding PLA cant be good for the lungs. It's defiantly harder than wood. I have had some latches I made pretty much just break after a year of so outside (UV). I probably should have use something other than PLA. 3D printing is a little new to me so Im sure there is something about it I'm missing.

I do know they make a wood filament that 70%PLA and 30% wood derivative (haven't use it).

I do think eventually 3D lure making will be popular.

Some really good points, thank you for sharing, the wood filament sounds very interesting.

Andy.

[UKandy]

14 hours ago, SlowFISH said:

As most have stated - every process has it's plus/minus as with everything in this hobby - you have to pick your poison and learn to deal with the route you choose.  

If staying with a "manual/hand" method of creating lure blanks is of interest - a carving duplicator is probably what you need to look for.  This was on EBAY (https://www.ebay.com/itm/143953712063?hash=item21844f53bf:g:KpsAAOSw5VFWKTVN).  Not saying get this one - but should give you an idea of what to look for - or DIY your own.

They make CNC lathes - I've even seen small/desktop ones... but You'd still need to learn CAD and programming and unless you want to make "spook" type topwater blanks it can't handle non-spindle type shapes.

3D printing is great - has a ton of benefits - but is labor intensive if you don't already have the CAD skills - and even then you still have to process the part (sand/smooth/etc).

Realistically - if you are happy with resin baits - making one - then a mold and pouring multiples is probably the best method if you want to keep cost down to start with.

 

  J.

Agree with what you are saying, good points you have made, the link that you shared was interesting, I've never seen that type of machine before, baffles me how it even works! Some more learning is needed I need to swat up on things.

Andy.

[UKandy]

14 hours ago, Outlaw4 said:

I've not seen anything for spindle blanks. But there are plenty of CNC wood engravers that you could make half sides of crankbaits with to make mold masters. You could also probably make halves of any lure to though wire. I've contemplated this but never pulled the trigger and i just do low volume and like to carve lol.

That's a good idea, I like that, so basically make 2 identical half's of a lure and then glue together after insering a through wire etc, makes sense and definitely worth a look into!

Andy.

[Thiskidlikes2fish]

You may look at a copy carver they are typically used for guitars but I think would work for that purpose 

[hazmail]

andy- 

Recently curiosity and idle hands has got the better of me, so in earnest I have started making lures again (also my tackle box is low) and its time to get the copy machine going (needs a new transformer).

So I just Googled "copy lathe" and up came TU and this thread ... I also looked up YouTube to see what was the latest on "copy lathes" and up came this interesting, eccentric character  (English of course) .

Here he is explaining in simple terms  how a copy lathe works (2 x dimensional) while he is building one.

Beside myself, I thought you and others may be interested :

Enjoy Pete

Edited June 27, 2022 by hazmail

[mark poulson]

Thanks Pete!

[RLures]

In my opinion what you need is a CNC machine for wood. I have seen some small bench top ones in the range from 2K, 3K,4K up to 50K (industrial)ones . I googled it under cnc for bench tops and it gave me several companies. Some made in USA and other ones in China.

good luck 

[UKandy]

On 6/27/2022 at 12:51 PM, hazmail said:

andy- 

Recently curiosity and idle hands has got the better of me, so in earnest I have started making lures again (also my tackle box is low) and its time to get the copy machine going (needs a new transformer).

So I just Googled "copy lathe" and up came TU and this thread ... I also looked up YouTube to see what was the latest on "copy lathes" and up came this interesting, eccentric character  (English of course) .

Here he is explaining in simple terms  how a copy lathe works (2 x dimensional) while he is building one.

Beside myself, I thought you and others may be interested :

Enjoy Pete

Hi Pete, sorry for my late thanks on this, I've been out of action for a good while now!

That was very interesting, I would think it can be modified on to a smaller machine also, will have a think.

Andy.

[wchilton]

UKandy, I think the machine that can do what you are asking about is what they call a 5-axis CNC mill.  It can move the part in the normal X, Y, Z linear axes and also can rotate around two axes to make under-cuts and other complex cuts that require the cutter to have access to places a simpler 3-linear-axis machine cannot reach.  As mentioned earlier, you still need to be able to design what you want in CAD, and you would also need 5-Axis CAM software to generate the more complex toolpath instructions.  Even with all that, there are things that 3-D printing can do that 5-Axis machining could never do.  Physical machining always needs a way to get the cutting bit inside the shape where 3D printing can create completely sealed objects with interior structure.  For a simple example consider if you wanted to "machine" a hollow sphere.  Can't be done using any conventional machining.  Is relatively easy with conventional machining if you do it in two halves to be attached together.  Creating it by 3D printing is possible, just need some support points to hold it in place as the layers are built up.

[Travis]

3D printing is great for design.  Making lures frankly well just too slow and time consuming to be anything more than having fun playing with regards to making lures.  Last small bluegill swimbait I drew up took like 6 hours to print.  I will mold it eventually and cast.  I have a few other lures I down loaded and some pushed 8 hours to print.  Glue up, surface finishing will take even more time.

As far as duplicator lathes have been around for ever and relatively easy to outfit most lathes and many can easily knock out a few lures with the typical set up available to hobbyists.    Every now and then you will come across a clip of crankbait machines that have blank spindle stock  feed continuously that are designed for true lure production.   I have come across several videos and they typically  work similar. 

Automating processes for the sake of making blanks, for most hobbyists is purely because they love the technology and to tinker.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Travis

[UKandy]

On 7/4/2022 at 6:49 AM, wchilton said:

UKandy, I think the machine that can do what you are asking about is what they call a 5-axis CNC mill.  It can move the part in the normal X, Y, Z linear axes and also can rotate around two axes to make under-cuts and other complex cuts that require the cutter to have access to places a simpler 3-linear-axis machine cannot reach.  As mentioned earlier, you still need to be able to design what you want in CAD, and you would also need 5-Axis CAM software to generate the more complex toolpath instructions.  Even with all that, there are things that 3-D printing can do that 5-Axis machining could never do.  Physical machining always needs a way to get the cutting bit inside the shape where 3D printing can create completely sealed objects with interior structure.  For a simple example consider if you wanted to "machine" a hollow sphere.  Can't be done using any conventional machining.  Is relatively easy with conventional machining if you do it in two halves to be attached together.  Creating it by 3D printing is possible, just need some support points to hold it in place as the layers are built up.

Thank you for the info provided, I have also been looking down the 3d printing route & resin printing, I'm just not sure what too do with all the choices involved, if I could sell a few baits it would make more sense that's for sure!

Andy.

[UKandy]

On 7/4/2022 at 4:53 PM, Travis said:

3D printing is great for design.  Making lures frankly well just too slow and time consuming to be anything more than having fun playing with regards to making lures.  Last small bluegill swimbait I drew up took like 6 hours to print.  I will mold it eventually and cast.  I have a few other lures I down loaded and some pushed 8 hours to print.  Glue up, surface finishing will take even more time.

As far as duplicator lathes have been around for ever and relatively easy to outfit most lathes and many can easily knock out a few lures with the typical set up available to hobbyists.    Every now and then you will come across a clip of crankbait machines that have blank spindle stock  feed continuously that are designed for true lure production.   I have come across several videos and they typically  work similar. 

Automating processes for the sake of making blanks, for most hobbyists is purely because they love the technology and to tinker.

 

Thanks for the video link, wow that is one heck of a setup right there & inspiring, is there still a place in the market were custom/handmade lure makers can make a living/good profit? The video made me question that aswell 

Andy.

[Travis]

I enjoy my 3D printer.  Frustrating at times yes but that is my lack of knowledge and not spending time.   I would never use it as even a low production method to make lures but I have a shop and space to make lures traditionally and more importantly enjoy the making process.  Then again some spend all week printing the dumbest items to stick on a shelf (I have rhino, octopus, robots, lizards, frogs, etc.. from trying to get familiar with the unit). 

For designing lures can be a very important tool in the right hands.  What I am doing and what I see most guys doing is really just scratching the surface and not pushing anything new or truly pushing towards anything novel... just making a "shell" of lure.

A custom/handmade lure maker can make a living and good profit (now we have to be acknowledge this is a vastly different meaning to many).    There are several here in the states that have making bass cranks.  How long will it be a source of income is the real unknown as many sort of fade away and many have another job or spouse that is the main source of revenue and the lure making more of a a side hustle.

The brutal truth:   Most can make a lure.  Most don't have the experience or knowledge to know if the lure is any good.  Just because you catch fish on you home body of water doesn't equate to it being a good lure.   One  has to be honest with themselves about their product (difficult to do).  Even if you have a good lure if you can't market it or put the bait in the correct anglers hands you have nothing.   Hot baits often don't weather the storm.  Most aren't going to spend the money and effort to put themselves in a position to try and be successful.  

The "lathe duplicator" style set up using a blade, router, or carbide cutting insert is very doable for those that enjoy tinkering.  With a little knowledge, determination, and effort you can come up with a machine to cut blanks out.  I can't find them know but had video links to several different lure making machines that worked in theory similar to the Rapala set up just used a single blank feed and production lower but still fast. 

Some on this site have systems that are a step above the typical hobby set ups and can mass produce baits.  You will not see a video with any detail on them as would be too easy for someone to knock it off and offer cheap blanks for resale.  This is a very niche market and competition is fierce.   

[OIR]

Resin 3D Printer might be the easy way

the do get better and better..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFGrrfExsAM

and lure 3d files are easy to find

https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=fishing+lure&page=1&type=things&sort=relevant

https://www.myminifactory.com

https://cults3d.com

 

 

[UKandy]

1 hour ago, OIR said:

Resin 3D Printer might be the easy way

the do get better and better..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFGrrfExsAM

and lure 3d files are easy to find

https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=fishing+lure&page=1&type=things&sort=relevant

https://www.myminifactory.com

https://cults3d.com

 

Thank you  I will have a look through the links

Andy.