Cotter Pins vs Screw Eyes vs Twist Wires vs Through Wire

[RiverSmallieGuy]

I am fairly new to lure making, specifically wooden lures, and I am curious as to what is the best option for line ties and hook hangers for wooden lures, be that crankbaits, swimbaits, topwaters etc. Any thoughts on this? I have been using cotter pins a lot and I just wanted to know how they compare to things like twist wires, screw eyes, and through wires. If it helps, I just use standard liquid super glue to adhere the hardware into the body. 

 

Braden

Edited February 2, 2022 by RiverSmallieGuy
Sub-par grammar.

[JD_mudbug]

Welcome to the site.

On larger pike/musky baits, I will use a straight wire through from line tie to tail hook with dropper wires or swivels for belly hooks. Through-wire is the strongest.  I sometimes use wire-through on smaller lures with less dense woods like balsa because it has less strength to hold a screw.

For non wire-through baits, I like stainless safety wire twist eyes the best.  I set them with epoxy. Epoxy is stronger than super glue in holding a screw.  I put them into the bait at angle.  I angle the line tie wire and tail twist wire up towards the top of the bait. I will put the belly twist wire in at angle wherever it will fit, but prefer it to be angled forward. I have yet to see a wire twist eye set with epoxy fail. Engineered Angler has some videos on screw vs. twist wire and epoxy vs. superglue that are real informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDNXd8ILnJ0&t=34s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIEhsMILC08

Next, I like the .072 and .092 stainless screw eyes.  When I use these, I set the eye of the screw into a recessed cup in the lure body a bit. I can fill the recess with epoxy to reduce the chance of the eye opening up by making sure the part where the eye could open is embedded in epoxy.

I would be worried about a cotter pin with superglue. Cotter pins are fairly smooth. I think a big fish could pull them out. If I were to use cotter pins, I would score the end going in the lure body and set it with epoxy. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by JD_mudbug
typo

[RiverSmallieGuy]

Thanks man! Yeah, I kinda had that thought about the screw eyes, like if I snagged a big carp on accident, or hooked into a giant river musky or even a big river smallie, that the screw eye could open up and could thus lose the fish. Thats why I have been using cotter pins over screw eyes, I will definitely have to try the epoxying the gap technique. I also really think that the idea of putting a twist wire in at an angle to where you are not just pulling it straight out of the bait, phenomenal advice! What diameter stainless wire are you talking about with your twist wires? Is is .032, .041, .051, or .062? 

 

Braden

Edited February 3, 2022 by RiverSmallieGuy
Sub-par grammar.

[JD_mudbug]

I mostly make baits 5+ inches in length and 1+ oz in weight. I use .051" for them. Sometimes, I will go with .062" on lures of that size if they will used for pike/musky.

For larger lures, when the bait is 7"+ and 2.5+ oz, I use .062.  

For a typical bass-size crank, I use .041". 

 

[RiverSmallieGuy]

Alright. I was racking my mind after watching the two videos that you recommended, and I found that an efficient way to increase the structural integrity of my cotter pins would be to use the same technique that you use for your screw eyes, except do it to where I have a cavity around the back of the eyelet, and fill the cavity with super glue and baking soda which also bonds the back of the cotter pin to the pre-drilled cavity. I have pulled and pulled and pulled on them and even in balsa, they wouldn't rip out. I was probably putting upwards of 20lbs of force on them, and they held inside balsa. I will definitely use your guidelines on wire diameter on future builds. Couple more questions, does the tallness of a lure change your decision on wire diameter? Like if your making a 6" minnow profile swimbait what diameter would you use, would you change the diameter if you made a 6" bluegill profile? Last one, does wood density also play into what diameter you use? Thank you!

 

Braden

Edited February 3, 2022 by RiverSmallieGuy

[JD_mudbug]

I would trust the epoxy over the super glue and baking soda.  The super glue and baking soda combo make a great body filler but I am not sure of its holding strength. 20 lbs may seem like a lot but it is really not. The torque a big fish can put on eyelet can be more than that. The fish can use the lure's weight as leverage to snap it back and forth. A fish thrashing in a net can also put on tremendous stress on a lure. It depends on the size of the fish you are targeting. Some of the waters I fish have big pike and musky. 20 lbs wouldn't cut it. EA was getting 160+ lbs on pull tests with twist wire and epoxy. 

As for tallness, I think of it as more a question of the weight of the lure. A 6 inch minnow would be 1 to 2 ounces. I would use .051 wire for that. A bluegill bait of the same length would depend on the weight. Once the weight gets over 2.5 oz, I would start looking at .062 wire. It could also be a combo of wire. If I was making a big 'Shellcracker' type bait with a joint, it could be .062 for the line tie and .051 for the joint loops as there are two of those to share the stress. The pin that goes into the back section and through the 2 loops would be .062 shaft wire, a cut section of a stainless nail, or heavier stiff wire like a stainless toy car/plane axle. You do not want a hinge pin to flex. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08L7RKM6Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

On large baits, it don't use woods like balsa. I use cedar, poplar, and PVC. So, density is not an issue.  Also, the baits are big enough that if I am using twist wire eye I can get the twists an inch and a half into the bait. The twists give a ton of surface area for epoxy to bond it to the lure. 

If I am using less dense wood like balsa, I would keep the wire diameter appropriate to the size of bait and try to get in longer screws or just make it wire through. You want to reduce the chances of failure as much as possible. That failure could happen on the fish of a lifetime. A failure like that will sting years later.

When I make a twist wire eye, I file the end to a point. Filing takes a minute and prevents the flared cut ends from widening the pilot hole. I drill a pilot hole the same size or slightly smaller than the twist eye. The twist wire screw acts like a normal screw with a reversed thread. I can screw the twist eye into the hole with counterclockwise turning. I test fit it to make sure I have the length right, unscrew it with clockwise twists, and pump epoxy into the hole with a disposable plastic syringe, baggie with corner cut off, or pushing epoxy in with a tooth pick or scrap wire. I then coat the twists with the epoxy and screw the twist eye back in. They max out my 50 lb. fish scale and then some. 

[RiverSmallieGuy]

So other words, I should definitely use epoxy if I decide to use cotter pins, or really any hardware if I want the utmost structural integrity. I was saying 20lbs as though it is a lot because all I fish are bass (and hopefully some tiger musky in the near future!) and that seemed like a lot for a cotter pin super glued in balsa haha. I do not have any 5 minute at the moment, so I guess I'm off to get some tomorrow then, if the icy, snowy roads aren't too terrible. Thank you for all of the great advice! Tight lines!

 

Braden

[Outlaw4]

if you are making short enough baits with long enough cotter pins run them all the way through the bait bend then ends so that they go out parallel with the bait then add a short 90 that pegs back into the bait. Lots of older lures used this method. 

[swimb8s]

38 minutes ago, Outlaw4 said:

if you are making short enough baits with long enough cotter pins run them all the way through the bait bend then ends so that they go out parallel with the bait then add a short 90 that pegs back into the bait. Lots of older lures used this method. 

X2

[JD_mudbug]

I forgot to mention using cross pinning to secure hardware. You can make a piece of wire with a loop on each end or use a swivel. Then put a piece of shaft wire perpendicular and through the loop end in the bait. I have used a through-wire or a wire for a joint to cross pin a swivel for a rotating belly hook hanger. You can cross pin your diving lips for added security too.

We have some tiger musky in my area. They get crazy when landed much like their northern pike half. A death roll in the net where one hook is in a net hole can be a mess. You definitely want more of a mechanical bond like Outlaw4's method or through-wire if you hook into one of them.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

Absolutely! I am going to order 2 or 3 different diameters of stainless wire for some simple lures I am going to make some batches of; 4 inch walking topwaters 2.5 inch poppers small balsa jerkbaits, just stuff that 15 inch river smallmouth can easily and eagerly eat, and I am going to try through wiring them! Cheers!

 

Braden

Edited February 4, 2022 by RiverSmallieGuy
Sub-par grammar.

[ravenlures]

I would purchase your wire from McMaster Carr more choices to choose from, and a better price.

Wayne

[RiverSmallieGuy]

Is there a product number for the product(s) that you are recommending? If not, I'm sure I can still find it, thank you though!

 

Braden

[RiverSmallieGuy]

Does anybody have a method for through-wiring a 2+ piece swimbait, because I am interested in making balsa wood swimbaits for stability and ease of workability. I have tried thinking about a good way to do this, but I can't figure a maker-friendly way to do this. Any thoughts?

Edited February 6, 2022 by RiverSmallieGuy

[JD_mudbug]

I have made some 2 and 3 section swimbaits that are wire-through. There is no easy way to do it. It does get easier the more you do it.

What I do is cut a slot down the center of the belly of the sections. Make a line tie loop in the wire. Add a dropper wire or swivel to that main wire. You may have to drill a hole to just past the bottom of the slot for the swivel/dropper wire to fit. Check the wire in the slot for length and mark where it exits the back of the slot. Bend a horizontal loop at the end of the first head section starting at the mark. Test fit the first section harness, adjust/ re-make if necessary. Once the fit is good, I lock the wire in the front section with epoxy.  Then, I fill the slot with epoxy/superglue coated flat wood stirrers. Run some sandpaper by hand over the stirrers if necessary to get them in the slot. I like to fill the slot with the same material as the body.

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Count-Coffee-Beverage-Stirrers/dp/B001FVPAOE/ref=sr_1_5?crid=R4RJ76Q3KRKG&keywords=wood%2Bdrink%2Bstirrers&qid=1644201045&sprefix=wood%2Bdrink%2Bstirrersd%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-5&th=1

Once your front section is set, you can make the wires for the next section. The next section should start with a vertical loop unfinished. Just make the loop and don’t do any wraps to close that loop. Add dropper wire or swivel if necessary. Finish the wire with a horizontal loop in the back towards the tail if adding a 3^rd section. If the second section is the last, make the last loop whichever way you want it.  Test fit and adjust/remake as necessary. Once you have the length right, slip that section’s wire front loop onto the back loop of the head section and complete the wraps to link the 2 wires. You can then slip the second body section’s wire into its slot. Epoxy the wire in. Fill slot with wood as above.

Repeat the same procedure for following sections. If the last section has no hook and just a mounted tail fin, there will be no pulling on it. You can use a long screw eye/twist wire eye if you want to avoid cutting a slot in that type of section.

You complete one section at a time. Test fit, lock the wire in, fill the slot and move onto the next section. That way if you screw up, you just lose a bit of wire. The loops in between the sections have to be in opposite directions, horizontal vs. vertical, for them to move. Once you have the wires installed and slots filled, you can do ballast testing and drilling ballast holes. Just don't drill deep enough to hit the main wire in the sections.

I hope that helps. My first one was a bit of pain. After a few, I can do them fairly well. It sounds more difficult than it is.

Edited February 7, 2022 by JD_mudbug
missing info

[ravenlures]

ttps://www.mcmaster.com/304-stainless-steel-wire    Take the time and look around and learn that's how all of us gain knowledge. I but the straight wire 1 ft. long.

Wayne

[RiverSmallieGuy]

Thank you all! I really appreciate all of the help and the welcomeness that I received when I joined!

 

Braden

[JD_mudbug]

I use the stainless shaft wire from LPO, Janns, Barlows, Musky Shop on some builds, particular those with a rotating blade(s) or body section like a plopper, globe, or prop bait.  You want shaft wire on these baits because it does not bend easily which will keep the body section or blade spinning. You can get the shaft wire with a loop on one end from the component suppliers to save some work.

I use stainless safety lock wire from Malin or WCS (Wire and Cable Specialties) on other builds where I don't need a shaft wire. This wire is annealed making it easier to bend. I have also built a few with wire from AFW (American Fishing Wire).

I just search for wherever I can find best price on the diameter I want. Sometimes the best price is on Amazon or eBay. Sometimes the best price is from an industrial supplier like McMaster Carr or Grainger . I will stock up when one of the lure components places has as sale and free shipping.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

Makes sense. I have used .041" WCS lock wire and its really good stuff. When you twist it together it's really rigid, but if you don't it's really flexible and user friendly and is great for through wire. I am making a 6" bluegill profile 3-piece out of balsa, so thats why I was asking about through-wire jointed baits, because I was thinking about making it a through wire. Tight lines!

 

Braden