Finally got some 3d printed proto types

[aulrich]

On 3/29/2022 at 6:43 AM, BTL said:

Did you have to send in a CAD file to have these baits printed, or did you just describe what you wanted? Been thinking of doing the same thing. I make resin lures but I want some new masters to make molds with.

@BTL I had a bit of a Bob Ross moment This weekend I have been putting the baits together. So after I had things glued and bondo'd I hit th baits with CA glue to seal because prints off of my printer are not water tight. But what I was not suspecting was how well CA glue deals with layer lines it pretty much erases all but the deepest and the surface is much easier to sand. So a nice glassy smooth master should be easy to get.

 

 

And after a few min in Fusion a version that is jointed. The upside of the printer is as I sleep the lure body is made.

I think that  I may need to have two wires at the joint but we can see what happens. And apparently stainless MIG wire is too stiff to get the twist wire loop very small. And with this body the hook hangers and tie on eye are glued in twist wires.

 

[RiverSmallieGuy]

You may want to consider what kind of fish you are fishing for with your lures to determine wire thickness for hardware, to ensure durability and suitability.

[aulrich]

Very good point, I am not a musky fisherman I am just a pike guy who likes bigger lures so the .031 is fine in general for my normal pike gear. I run .024 on smaller lures. The Thru-Wire versions should be plenty strong I am not at all sure about the twisteye versions I am not sure if epoxy or gelled CA glue is better 

I really should rig test for that somehow

Just recently SWMBO has imposed  our return to the west coast of Mexico next winter. The last time we were there I had turned some pencil poppers, needlefish and conventional poppers. I have 1/16" wire for that sort of stuff. There is a whole list of things to try with travel in mind but the lure with the most cross over are stickbaits 

 

Stick baits are an interesting lure I like a lure class that scales from trout to GT, I ran into a youtube channel by this guy from Africa building lures and his size of stick bait is sort of interesting   https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgj7rzp5SnESrndnMddZLrg/videos

a little heavy duty for pike but it could work

Edited April 13, 2022 by aulrich

[aulrich]

Did some bathtub testing since the weather is not cooperating. Some hits some misses and a couple of close but need some tweaks.

The two out right winners  the super critical bomber KO and a lipless no-rattling rap.

Both of the deep bodies minnow baits need adjustment the 8" needs the ballast adjusted it swims but it's tail heavy. The 4" version of the same shape looked like a dud and I had sort of expected that since the lip was in the wrong spot and it was printed on the heavy side. but I bent the line tie down and it started to swim. so a couple of adjustments and that should be good.

the basic lipless the green one above was a dud some action but not much I think I over ballasted it, I'll lighten the ballast and try again. 

I also tried my hand at a jointed swimbait shaped like a pike. I worked out a pretty interesting joint (I think) . But there was no swim at all. I dropped most of that idea and switched the shape over to lipped minnow. that version is on the printer now. 

 

 

That is  the joint 2mm hole top and bottom and 3mm for the middle to provide clearance. the 2mm holes when they are printed give a good slip fit with 1/16 tig wire.

[Travis]

Will you mold these eventually or just print lures to fish? 

I have been messing around with a few designs but need to find out more about the stupid software.  Things I want to do I can't.    

[aulrich]

I will probably do a mix of printed and cast lures, my bread and butter lures I will cast, especially since I need  at least 20 of the bomber in the next month(I have 3 tackle boxes to restock).

The kicker is do I make a mold the usual way embed a lure in modeling clay and us silicon, or do I print a mold, the OP of the current glide bait thread has done that, Or do I print a mold for the two mold halves pouring silicon into those to make the mold. I'll probably end up trying all three.

If I had a resin printer, rather than a FDM printer, printing all of the lures would be feasible since you can print a build tray full of bodies as fast as you can print one with a resin printer. Though as I understand it printing lures on a resin printer has it's own set of challenges.

Every few years the wife and I head to Mexico  and I have made much of what I use to play on the beach those I'll probably just print since I only need a couple of any body style.

For me the big issue is learning the basic dimensional rules of thumb for the different lure styles.

Fusion makes me cry on a regular basis  

 

[Travis]

1 hour ago, aulrich said:

Fusion makes me cry on a regular basis  

I wished there was a legit book for it use.  Instead stuck piecing together You tube videos on various subjects and trial and error.

 

[aulrich]

I have used CAD systems off an on for just about 30 years so I have some back ground. But I did buy a Udemy class and that helped but the Youtuber Gulfstream Outdoors tied basic CAD to lure design. But at this point I am just playing with pipes not doing proper CAD.  There are plenty of topics that I need to learn that will really raise my game.  probably the biggest is parameters you can set things like max width is at 40% lure length.  It looks annoying at first but it lets you scale a lure up or down and not loose what made it work. The upside of pipes is you can get a quick success and that motivates you to dig deeper.

Lofting is the next step, right now I import a picture of a fish or a lure scale it, then draw a pipe and manipulate it until I get the shape I want. But that method while fast and good for cranking out something lacks real control, if you are looking for a precise shape lofting is the way to go.

FYI don't buy a udemy class unless it's 20$ or less, the first time you search a subject it will want some silly price wait inevitably they go on sale. I think the first price you see if for folks who have a company credit card and just had something new dropped in their lap. Another option is linda.com but typically the best way to access that is with a library card, or at least my public library has unlimited access to linda.com but I expect it's common practice.

 

 

[Travis]

Few years ago I designed a few items for my workshop and other hobbies and used lofting but very basic things for the workshop and other hobbies.  It was ridiculously slow as would search for video and watch to see what task I was wanting to accomplish.  Most videos I can't stand to watch based on their delivery.

I have been using the image with pipes method also as easy to get a lure shape but as you mentioned leaves a lot to be desired.   The small bluegill swimbait to move forward with.  I have printed it and will print a few more derivations to mess with then go ahead and mold.  Mainly need to look at the joint and segment length. 

I have one with simple extruded details also that I can just correct with bondo to get the smooth contours where applicable.  That said much more enjoyable for me to just carve a bait.   

 

 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

This 3D printing stuff sounds like a real pain and would likely result in me breaking my computer if I tried it

Aulrich I can tell you for a fact pike smash sinking stick baits and are another great underutilized pike lure

[Vodkaman]

I have never heard of 'pipes' as a construction technique. Probably labeled different in the software that I use, CATIA V5.

Dave

[aulrich]

I had turned a couple of needlefish type stick baits for surf fishing those do get moved to the freshwater box they do work these ones may be a bit heavy for fresh water they were primarily used to skip back at high speed like 55" per turn and as fast as you can fast.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

17 minutes ago, aulrich said:

I had turned a couple of needlefish type stick baits for surf fishing those do get moved to the freshwater box they do work these ones may be a bit heavy for fresh water they were primarily used to skip back at high speed like 55" per turn and as fast as you can fast.

I have only used/made stickbaits that are more of a baitfish body shape but they work. Never used a needle fish 

Truth is some of my jerk baits use principles from saltwater stick baits. Really lipless jerk baits, gliders, and stick baits are all in the same family where the lines blur at times. Any truly predatory fish will hit them it’s often just using the correct size that runs at the correct depth and how the angler works it

Now catch something on these 3D printed crankbaits 

 

[aulrich]

11 hours ago, Travis said:

Few years ago I designed a few items for my workshop and other hobbies and used lofting but very basic things for the workshop and other hobbies.  It was ridiculously slow as would search for video and watch to see what task I was wanting to accomplish.  Most videos I can't stand to watch based on their delivery.

I have been using the image with pipes method also as easy to get a lure shape but as you mentioned leaves a lot to be desired.   The small bluegill swimbait to move forward with.  I have printed it and will print a few more derivations to mess with then go ahead and mold.  Mainly need to look at the joint and segment length. 

I have one with simple extruded details also that I can just correct with bondo to get the smooth contours where applicable.  That said much more enjoyable for me to just carve a bait.   

 

 

That is a nifty body shape maybe this will show the joint I am trying. I think I have seen this style a few times most recently a marling baits video.

The top bait is the dud no swim whatsoever , the bottom bait swims nice.

this is how I did the joint.

1 Create a sketch from the top view.

2 Draw a construction line on the center line ending to where you want the joint to be.

3 On that end point draw two circles one that is just bigger than the body and one sized to fit your pin .

4 Use the split body command using the big circle as the tool.

5 Use the extrude command to cut the smaller hole through the body

6 Turn the front and back bodies off and split the remaining cylinder in to three pieces I did 25%/50%/25%

7 Joint the middle bit to the back and the   top and bottom bit to the front.

8 Use the offset command to build in clearances.

 

I suspect I need to add more clearance in the next version to get a wider and freer motion though it does swim nicely.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Are you able to sand down the joint to improve clearance with this material?

 

[ravenlures]

I don't need a 3D printer when I can turn down a lure faster on a lathe. Just an old dog here that just don't want a 3D printer, I thought about it but too much thinking to make a lure. I stay within my boundaries and if needed then I could make one out of clay and reproduce that. 3D is for you younger guys who have and can do the mind work that is needed. I just enjoy how I do it, with my hands along with this crazy old mind. But keep up what you are doing, some day a program will come out with just a few inputs and there it is just 8 more hours to print it out.

Wayne

[aulrich]

When I was carving lures I made a lot of firewood, I just had a hard time making things swim the way I wanted. If I had to guess I was probably being too cheap with my wood  trying to get away with a blank that was too narrow and not getting properly centered and symmetric lures.  About the time I had turned the corner with my carving skills I discovered pre-made lure blanks and painted a couple of years worth of lures. After that it was and still is  soft plastics but now that my hardbody lures are in short supply I have circled back. I have had the printer for a while but mostly I printed stuff for tabletop gaming I did print some lure I found on thingiverse but I could not get any to run right. So when the bug bit me to make lures again  I went down the printed trail.

There is no replacement for a carved lure and I will probably circle back, I am a do what works for you sort of guy. 

Hillbilly, the material does sand but I don't have a lot of material to work with.  The pike body above was printed with 10% infill, so after the first 1.6mm  4 lines from my .4mm nozzle it's air and a grid pattern. 

I did manage to find a bit of water that was close, open of ice and for fishing. The lure above swam pretty good but I do have the clearance in the wrong spots. With that print I had the clearance on the shaft of the rear portion thinking the drag would keep the clearance open and it a certain extent it did.  The next version I will take most of the slack out of the shaft and put it into the sockets. The  slack in the shaft lets the rear half twist and bind up randomly, I also think I need more room for paint and top coat. 

The other lures that passed the tub test passed the casting test too the one I was really hoping for my bomber KO actually swims better than the original KO lure body. So that body gets made into a mold  and cast, I need lots and fast since I was out of that body and May long is just over 3 weeks away and IIRC 3 kayak in June.  Hopefully the ice will be off at my cabin (Dory lake SK) but I have my doubts this year might not be able to get down the driveway lots of snow this year.

 

[RiverSmallieGuy]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:22 PM, RiverSmallieGuy said:

 

I also do not make lures on CAD or 3D print them. I carve and pour everything I make. All of that lipped lure philosophy was strictly on making wooden lures. You can definitely apply it to your printed lures and resin baits. The only differences here is that with resin, you don't have to seal it and with printed masters you may want to seal it. People try to compare wooden baits to resin baits, and really the only thing you need to know is how buoyant your material is. Woods can be way more buoyant than resin, so they need to be treated differently.

Forgot to mention here: the other difference with resin is the weight of the resin vs the weight of the wood. Leverage is why I bring this up.

[SlowFISH]

Aulrich - 

  If you are using FDM (and assuming printing in ABS) - you can "sand" your prints with a cloth/paper towel and some acetone.  I've been using FDM/ABS at work for 15 or so years - most times don't need to do anything to it, but every now and then I need to make something water tight or have to paint it for an appearance model.... rubbing first with acetone melts the ABS layers together and smooths the build lines out... then a little sanding and you're off and running.  You can even use acetone to bond parts... I'd pour acetone on a sheet of glass - lay the edges of parts I wanted to bond in it for a few seconds (say two bait halves) then press together - they basically melt together.

CA glue is a good method as well... I know some prototype shops used to thin that stuff and airbrush it onto FDM parts to get a nice level finish as well... I never tried it as I didn't want to ruin an airbrush or breath that stuff - but food for thought.

Hope that might help....

 J.

[aulrich]

SlowFish

I am using PLA at this point, ABS and most of the higher end filaments have couple of challenges mostly revolving around ambient temperature. My printer is in my basement and it's 65f or cooler pretty much year round. I expect I would be fighting poor bed adhesion and warping. I could fix that easily with a heated enclosure and a rebuild of the electronic housings so the brain and power supply stay in the cool,  but that is a project for future me :). I could use PTEG but there is some question on how paintable it is so it's questionable how usable it is. I do have some so I will try it eventually. PTEG could make a better lip but would it glue in OK.

When I started down this path I was expecting to print prototypes  get a shape to 99% and make a mold leaving the finalization of how much and location of ballast. Though now  I will be using some printed lure just to see if they can stand up. PLA is not an outdoor plastic but I think 2 epoxy top coats should help with that. Big pike should test the strength at least for fresh water. 

RiverSnallieguy

Through the prototyping process I have been watching the density of my lures.  Fusion gives me the volume and my slicer gives me an estimate on how much plastic it will take to print, at this point I have found a setting that replicates pine. 

[aulrich]

Just incase folks that don't 3d print here is a screen shot from my slicer showing the tool paths for laying down the plastic.  A FDM printer is essentially a CNC hot melt glue gun .  The red line is an outside perimeter the green is the two inner perimeters the yellow is infill and the blue lines are support material. Support material is required when printing overhangs it provides a surface to print on. The is support under the lure and some that will go around and support the rim of the eye socket.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

On 4/13/2022 at 3:57 PM, aulrich said:

Very good point, I am not a musky fisherman I am just a pike guy who likes bigger lures so the .031 is fine in general for my normal pike gear. I run .024 on smaller lures. The Thru-Wire versions should be plenty strong I am not at all sure about the twisteye versions I am not sure if epoxy or gelled CA glue is better 

I really should rig test for that somehow

Just recently SWMBO has imposed  our return to the west coast of Mexico next winter. The last time we were there I had turned some pencil poppers, needlefish and conventional poppers. I have 1/16" wire for that sort of stuff. There is a whole list of things to try with travel in mind but the lure with the most cross over are stickbaits 

 

Stick baits are an interesting lure I like a lure class that scales from trout to GT, I ran into a youtube channel by this guy from Africa building lures and his size of stick bait is sort of interesting   https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgj7rzp5SnESrndnMddZLrg/videos

a little heavy duty for pike but it could work

I think that .024 is wayy to light for really any kind of lure, just my opinion, but the general consensus for lures where pike and bass are present, you want .032 for smaller lures, .041 is a good do-all wire size, and .051 is great for the really big lures (7"+). This is how I operate with wooden lures, but it should be fairly similar.

[mark poulson]

On 4/25/2022 at 5:33 AM, ravenlures said:

I don't need a 3D printer when I can turn down a lure faster on a lathe. Just an old dog here that just don't want a 3D printer, I thought about it but too much thinking to make a lure. I stay within my boundaries and if needed then I could make one out of clay and reproduce that. 3D is for you younger guys who have and can do the mind work that is needed. I just enjoy how I do it, with my hands along with this crazy old mind. But keep up what you are doing, some day a program will come out with just a few inputs and there it is just 8 more hours to print it out.

Wayne

I figure, once I've mastered my smart phone, I'll give 3D printing a try.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

4 minutes ago, mark poulson said:

I figure, once I've mastered my smart phone, I'll give 3D printing a try.

Hahaha

[aulrich]

I say that about carving