110 KO Balancing and performance?

[reallison]

It is one of the most frustrating baits to deal with in the entire industry, at least for me. Everyone sells them but there are many differences between the ones offered. 

My primary question is where can I get some standard shank #6 hooks that weigh a few grams more than the Mustad KVD Triple grips? 

I’m within about 0.1 or 0.2 grams of getting it right. I have tried all snap ring combinations, I can’t add another layer of clear, so the hooks are all that’s left I guess. Three (3) triple grips weigh 1.3 grams. If I can find a round bend, standard shank hook that when you weigh three of them they come up more than the 1.3 I’m at now would be awesome. 
 

any recommendations?

[RiverSmallieGuy]

37 minutes ago, reallison said:

 

It is one of the most frustrating baits to deal with in the entire industry, at least for me. Everyone sells them but there are many differences between the ones offered. 

My primary question is where can I get some standard shank #6 hooks that weigh a few grams more than the Mustad KVD Triple grips? 

I’m within about 0.1 or 0.2 grams of getting it right. I have tried all snap ring combinations, I can’t add another layer of clear, so the hooks are all that’s left I guess. Three (3) triple grips weigh 1.3 grams. If I can find a round bend, standard shank hook that when you weigh three of them they come up more than the 1.3 I’m at now would be awesome. 
 

any recommendations?

The blanks should be very similar to the original Vision 110, so the hooks should also be similar. This is all theory but it might work. On the real Megabass Vision 110s, they use Katsuage Out-Barb hooks, which are very light wire, very sharp, and very strong for the wire thickness. They sell them on TackleWarehouse, Megabass' site, and other places. A hook that is probably close is the Gamakatsu G-Finesse hooks, they are very sharp, very strong, and very very light. 

[azsouth]

1 hour ago, reallison said:

 

It is one of the most frustrating baits to deal with in the entire industry, at least for me. Everyone sells them but there are many differences between the ones offered. 

My primary question is where can I get some standard shank #6 hooks that weigh a few grams more than the Mustad KVD Triple grips? 

I’m within about 0.1 or 0.2 grams of getting it right. I have tried all snap ring combinations, I can’t add another layer of clear, so the hooks are all that’s left I guess. Three (3) triple grips weigh 1.3 grams. If I can find a round bend, standard shank hook that when you weigh three of them they come up more than the 1.3 I’m at now would be awesome. 
 

any recommendations?

Wiegh each bait separately before any paint or finish... Then after paint and finish weigh each bait!!! this is a pain staking process that works if the blanks are quite similar and are of good quality, if the quality is not similar you can not make it work properly. Another thing you have to take into account is how you are weighing your baits and hardware especially with jerk baits. You might want to go with weighing with grains instead of grams. Another thing to point out is barometric pressure!!! wild swings will change the baits buoyancy. along with water temp, salinity and elevation. These are just a few things that can help but nothing can help poor quality blanks. 

[reallison]

Hey Az, thanks for the recommendations. I know my weights raw, with paint, and with each addition of clear. I know the weights of each split ring size, I know the weight of my hooks. I need 0.2 or 0.3 grams extra and I’m trying to find that in a hook. I need more weight not less. I’m balancing out by adding an extra #1 split ring to the middle eye. I would like to stop doing that and that’s why I’m looking for heavier hooks. My target weight is 14.7g to make it a slow rise in my test tank. If you say well the Vision 110s suspend you are incorrect, put one in a tank or sink without line attached. I know my 110s and I’m probably one of the few that even test them before selling them. 
 

If someone has #6 nickel round bend hooks in a standard shank that can be bought in bulk could you please weigh three of them together and let me know what they weigh? 
also what type and where I can buy them in bulk if possible. TY.

[reallison]

One other thing I would like to mention about the blanks, I’ve got blanks from several different vendors. They all look the same, in fact, I drove to one seller and weighed them before I bought them. They weighed 11.7 to 11.9 g which was what I was looking for. All painted up, rigged them to my target weight of 14.7g and it shot up out the tank like a rocket. Under further inspection, with the help of some calipers, the belly was much wider than the ones I had been using. I got to 15.9g and still never got it to perform correctly. I’ve got several bags from different vendors that are useless, Th original guy I got the ones I could manage sold out and the replacements were no good either. I will not mention names. 
the fatter the lure, the more air inside, thus more buoyant. Weight is out the window when this happens. It’s not noticeable at first glance. 

[azsouth]

The reason I asking you to migrate to grains as a measurement it is more precise, Think about it this way... on a larger glide bait that weighs 3-6 ounces.... 1 gram can make or break the weighting of the whole bait.

1 Gram is approx. 15.4 grains... Easier to be more precise.

My suggestion is use your paint and finish to get your weight to were you need it for the hardware you have, it will save you time, headaches and $$.

You will almost always run into a supplier running out of what you want....Happens to me quite a bit, have more than 1 supplier of the same blank if possible.

You also need to know that changing hooks and snap rings will change the action of the bait a bit.

[reallison]

Thanks, I will try the grain scale. I sell a lot of translucent finishes where there is very little weight gain from paint. I use KBS and any more  than two coats begins to envelope and erase some body lines like in the gills and mouth area. I have exhausted my remedies other than hooks and I do feel I’m on the right path. 
Am I the only one that struggles with this?

[wchilton]

Adding paint will change the weight but won't affect the buoyancy much because paint is around same density as water.  So I think you're on the right track with heavier hooks.  Maybe try 2X or 3X strong hooks that have heavier wire in the same hook size?

[wchilton]

I'm pretty sure going with stronger hook will work and is the right thing to do if you have a lot of baits to deal with.  In the meantime, came up with the following.  Just wrapped some fine-diameter copper wire (from speaker wire I had out in the garage) around the bottom of each bend in the treble and added a clearcoat to the wraps to keep them from shifting.  Easily added 0.3gm to a single treble hook.  This would be the way to test out whether adding weight to the hook achieves what you want, then could look for a hook that gives you the correct weight.

[RiverSmallieGuy]

Good idea!

[mark poulson]

On 5/6/2022 at 8:37 AM, wchilton said:

I'm pretty sure going with stronger hook will work and is the right thing to do if you have a lot of baits to deal with.  In the meantime, came up with the following.  Just wrapped some fine-diameter copper wire (from speaker wire I had out in the garage) around the bottom of each bend in the treble and added a clearcoat to the wraps to keep them from shifting.  Easily added 0.3gm to a single treble hook.  This would be the way to test out whether adding weight to the hook achieves what you want, then could look for a hook that gives you the correct weight.

I do the same thing with lead wire, except I wrap it around the hook shank, not the bends.

It is a common fishing product.

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/search-tackle.html?start=0&count=30&searchtext=lead+wire

[wchilton]

The reason I put it on the bend is so it doesn't make the opening any smaller.  I know, probably doesn't matter.  The copper wire is just what I had laying around to see how this would work.  Was surprised how little wire it took to get a few 10ths of a gram.  It's a lot easier to work with using a longer piece than needed while wrapping!  I just cut it with nail clippers and clear coated with UV resin since I have it on hand.