Best way to top coat smaller top waters

[Redaddy24]

I’m new to air brushing and finally have a few I’d like to top coat! I tried the envirotex lite epoxy right after I finished painting them but it seems to have some spots where paints already missing on belly from hooks hitting. Also I’m worried epoxy may be a bit heavy for the action of these 3-4 inch spooks!  Any insight or step by steps for best clear coat ideas are welcome.  Forgive me if it’s already posted somewhere! New here

[azsouth]

Hook rash is normal.... trying to balance weight to function is something your going to have to determine yourself.

Description to explanation to actually doing it is almost impossible to replicate from area to area because of temperature, humidity, storage and type of finish... So the more time you put in the better you will get.

If you have any exact/direct questions, there is a lot of experience here to answer.

[Flaswimbaiter]

IMO hook rash is only a problem when it comes off in chunks or the clear peels. That’s when you should rethink what you are using or how it’s being applied.  I am happy when one of my baits gets rash in only one spot. 
 

are you putting one coat or two? 

[mark poulson]

I use clear nail polish in the hook rash path, and it works.

[JD_mudbug]

On the belly hook, you can try a T-type Treble like an Owner ST-35, KVD triple grip or other EWG treble where the points are slightly tipped in to reduce hook damage. You can make your own T trebles with pliers but be careful. Some hooks like Owner ST-36 are too stiff and snap when bent. If you are not careful, you could hook yourself or take a hook shard to the eye.

[Redaddy24]

11 hours ago, Flaswimbaiter said:

IMO hook rash is only a problem when it comes off in chunks or the clear peels. That’s when you should rethink what you are using or how it’s being applied.  I am happy when one of my baits gets rash in only one spot. 
 

are you putting one coat or two? 

I only put one coat on. I figured another coat may mess up the action !

 

[Redaddy24]

5 hours ago, JD_mudbug said:

On the belly hook, you can try a T-type Treble like an Owner ST-35, KVD triple grip or other EWG treble where the points are slightly tipped in to reduce hook damage. You can make your own T trebles with pliers but be careful. Some hooks like Owner ST-36 are too stiff and snap when bent. If you are not careful, you could hook yourself or take a hook shard to the eye.

Thanks I will look into those!

[Flaswimbaiter]

14 hours ago, Redaddy24 said:

I only put one coat on. I figured another coat may mess up the action !

 

I am not familiar with the clear you are using, I use Devcon which is a heavy clear and I put two coats. When I was putting one, it was not durable enough. Maybe you could try it on a junk bait. 

[BobP]

There is no topcoat that won’t hook rash.  Epoxies are only slightly more dense than water so you might be surprised at how well a bait will float with even a fairly thick epoxy coating.  IMO, the thinnest and hardest topcoat is probably moisture cured urethane such as KBS.

[Outlaw4]

kbs is pretty good for light lures. i like tru coat for bigger stuff, and it thins well with DNA but you have turn them to level. Im actually just in the process of doing a swimbait with KBS over Tru coat to see if i can get just a tad harder shell 

[Fishwhittler]

Gonna resurrect this thread for a moment...

On 4/28/2023 at 2:43 PM, Redaddy24 said:

I’m new to air brushing and finally have a few I’d like to top coat! I tried the envirotex lite epoxy right after I finished painting them but it seems to have some spots where paints already missing on belly from hooks hitting. Also I’m worried epoxy may be a bit heavy for the action of these 3-4 inch spooks!  Any insight or step by steps for best clear coat ideas are welcome.  Forgive me if it’s already posted somewhere! New here

I've never met the hook that could go through a proper coating of Etex, or any waterproof epoxy, so if you've got chipped/flaking beyond normal hook rash, it sounds like a prep or sealing issue.  I've got lures that are 10 years old or better in my box, and while the epoxy is scratched, the paint beneath is intact.  The only time you should experience epoxy flaking is if the seal fails, which can come from heavy impact against rocks or other hard objects resulting in cracks, chips, etc.  If water can get under the topcoat, it'll do precisely what others have said and cause swelling and/or loss of adhesion.

Now, another thing that caught my eye in your post is the "right after painting them" bit.  Acrylic paints take time to cure, at least a day or so.  A couple hours aren't really enough, nor is using a hairdryer to heat-set the paint.  Dry to touch doesn't equal cured, as I learned the hard way.  You might have no issues even if you do topcoat right away, but I've always found it safest to wait at least a full day before applying any topcoat.  You'll really run into problems if you're using a urethane finish, which will eat right into dry but uncured acrylic paint.  Never used solvent-based paints for crankbaits so I can't say for certain if there are similar issues there, but I'd imagine there are since the principles are the same.

I've also found it helpful to use a clear sealer over the paint, before topcoat.  I liked to use thread sealer for rod building, thinned down and applied through an airbrush.  It's not strictly necessary (unless you're using U40 low-build epoxy...then it's definitely necessary), but it's one more layer of protection that helps preserve the paint and ensure everything goes smoothly.

Beyond that, a few more things about using epoxy:

If you want a thinner coat, try warming your lure with a hairdryer before applying epoxy.  The heat will help the epoxy to flow better across the surface of the lure and will help to avoid an overly thick application.  Heating your bowl of mixed epoxy can also help, but I don't really like doing that because it's more likely you'll blow dust into the epoxy and cause an annoying though harmless flaw in your finish.

I've always preferred two coats for bass lures of any size.  With just one coat you might miss a spot, but two coats is generally going to completely cover everything.  This is especially true if you're trying to apply it more thinly, for example to preserve molded or carved details.  Though if that's the case, you're better off using a moisture-cure urethane or catalyzed topcoat.  Back to the original point, if you miss a tiny place or two with your topcoat, water will soak into the paint and may eventually cause the topcoat to lose adhesion and chip, crack, etc.

The only time epoxy will have a noticeable and/or detrimental impact on the action of a lure is if you use way, way too much.  I've used it on 1" crankbaits without issue, though if you try to go too much smaller than that you may want to consider using only a single coat or opting for a thinner topcoat option.  Cranks that size are more the exception than the rule for most builders, so for anything within the normal size range for bass lures, epoxy should be perfectly fine and have no impact on the finished lure's fishability.  Again, assuming you don't just go ham with your epoxy application and try to keep it to a thin, even layer.

[BobP]

Etex in multiple coats is popular with guys who build large musky baits.  I’ve used Devcon Two Ton glue epoxy for years on bass baits with good results and it has good abrasion resistance, so I still use it on baits that will be trolled for hours.  I really prefer to use moisture cured urethane on most bass baits, usually with 2-3 dip coats to build up a thicker coating to fend off rash.  For the same thickness of coating, I think MCU is just as tough as epoxy.

[mark poulson]

Dollar store clear nail polish works for smaller baits.

 

[BobP]

Whittler, I surely don't “know it all” after 25 yrs of building lures but the idea of acrylic paint curing escapes me.  I’ve not heard of any chemical reaction taking place after application of water based paint, which would constitute curing.  I always thought it just lays there and dries.  I use a hair dryer after shooting every color and don’t have a problem clearcoating lures soon after.  Redaddy24, Etex lite is a good product but it takes peculiar application procedures to apply it over a painted wooden lure.  I suggest going to Member Submitted Tutorials and looking for a tutorial by Fatfingers for best Etex practices.  Bar top epoxies like Etex contain lots of solvent to expel bubbles while curing.  Casting and glue epoxies don’t, which can make them easier to use.

[Fishwhittler]

On 6/29/2023 at 8:47 AM, BobP said:

Whittler, I surely don't “know it all” after 25 yrs of building lures but the idea of acrylic paint curing escapes me.  I’ve not heard of any chemical reaction taking place after application of water based paint, which would constitute curing.  I always thought it just lays there and dries.  I use a hair dryer after shooting every color and don’t have a problem clearcoating lures soon after.  Redaddy24, Etex lite is a good product but it takes peculiar application procedures to apply it over a painted wooden lure.  I suggest going to Member Submitted Tutorials and looking for a tutorial by Fatfingers for best Etex practices.  Bar top epoxies like Etex contain lots of solvent to expel bubbles while curing.  Casting and glue epoxies don’t, which can make them easier to use.

I think you just explained why I was having issues at all.  I never really thought about Etex containing more solvents than other epoxies, but that would explain why I experienced the issues that I attributed to uncured paint.  I was using Etex when I had problems with running paint, and I had the most problems with lures that had been painted the same day as they received topcoat.  If they had been painted a day or so before, the running was decreased or nonexistent.

Come to think of it, I don't think I really had the same issue with running paint while using other epoxies, and I experimented with a number of rod-building epoxies for lures back in the day.

[BobP]

I’m mostly a Devcon 2 ton user but you gotta respect builders that swear by Etex.  Their baits are often some of the most beautiful to be found.  I looked for the Fatfingers tutorial I mentioned but couldn’t find it.  The primary suggestion it made was to mix the Etex and let it sit for 12-15 minutes before application to allow some of the solvent to flash off and let the epoxy start to cure slightly.  I haven’t heard a lot of complaints about Etex, except that it is more prone to fisheye than other epoxies.  Frankly, I didn’t use it because it requires longer to cure and multiple coats to build up a finish as thick as glue or casting epoxies single coat.  Nowadays, I mostly use KBS MCU in 2-3 dip coats.  It’s the lazy man’s finish.

[Fishwhittler]

15 hours ago, BobP said:

I’m mostly a Devcon 2 ton user but you gotta respect builders that swear by Etex.  Their baits are often some of the most beautiful to be found.  I looked for the Fatfingers tutorial I mentioned but couldn’t find it.  The primary suggestion it made was to mix the Etex and let it sit for 12-15 minutes before application to allow some of the solvent to flash off and let the epoxy start to cure slightly.  I haven’t heard a lot of complaints about Etex, except that it is more prone to fisheye than other epoxies.  Frankly, I didn’t use it because it requires longer to cure and multiple coats to build up a finish as thick as glue or casting epoxies single coat.  Nowadays, I mostly use KBS MCU in 2-3 dip coats.  It’s the lazy man’s finish.

My solution ended up being a coat of thread sealer before topcoat, which took care of the problem.  I never had problems with fisheyes when applying Etex over thread sealer, come to think of it.  I had some minor issues before I started doing that, but none after.

[Saugerman]

I have some KBS that is probably 2 years old. I bought a quart, and have used about half of it. I keep it in the closet in the house at a constant temperature. I keep several layers of plastic seal over the top of the pickle jar I store it in, along with the top, and It stayed nice and thin, for along time. But now it has gotten thick. Is there a way of thinning it down, and still being able to savage it?