Injection molded hardbait design.

[Hand Crafted Angling]

When I started learning how to use a 3d printer and learn how to make my own lures I had a goal in mind. I wanted my baits to be as close to a store bought lure as possible. I’ve been trying to keep the internals the same to mimic it. So far I’ve been adding ball bearings as weights inside the bait. To my knowledge most of the higher quality baits are made out of poly carbonate.  I’ve mimicked this as best as I could by using a blend of polycarbonate. Although you can 3d print with it my printer doesn’t have the ability nor is it really viable cost wise at this time for my application. Instead of gluing the halves together I’ve moved onto solvent welding. I believe this is the process used by professional lure makers. I’ve also moved on to using figure 8 hook hangers. This seems like the most common method of hook and line attachment. Unfortunately I think I’ve hit a wall here. 3d printing has limitations with not only strength but tolerances and the required support structures. I was wondering if anyone here had experience making injection molded baits that could help me out. I was wondering how thick the walls are in general on commercially  made baits. I would like to see how close to that I can get away with. I’m sure it’s a crapshoot and all proprietary info but if someone had some pictures of an unassembled bait that would help me immensely. I’m assuming commercially made baits have some sort of alignment system with a male and female half. Unfortunately this may be hard for me to implement so far I’ve just been using the hook hangers as alignment pins.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Don’t assume commercially made baits are what to strive for when you are talking quality. There are many smaller builders producing far better quality baits that command a much higher dollar for good reason 

Commercially made just means mass produced at a low cost. Many lack any creativity and have flaws

One of the main reasons I build baits is I am disappointed in the quality of most store bought baits. Even when I find commercial baits I like I find flaws in durability, fowling hooks or missing things action wise. I find myself designing a variant that doesn’t have the flaws

There is more garbage on tackle shop walls than good lures

recently I have made the choice to turn out less lures and design to pursue only what I am 100% happy with. I am building less baits but they command a higher $ too

Just something to consider before you go to far down that rabbit hole 

[azsouth]

Commercial pvc/plastic bait ..... Most are Ultrasonically welded hence the seem in the bait. It doesn't take much looking into commercial bait making to get the answers but then you start talking about quite a bit of money.

Most garage guys that build baits don't use computers and programs to build their baits but just start building with a tough learning curve and help from other builders.

First thing to do is pick the style of bait you want then have at it... after a few failures you will have some pretty specific questions for people with more experience.

Like "Hillbilly Voodoo" said be careful of the rabbit hole you're heading for!

I have personally made some good baits and quite a few great paper weights.

[Hand Crafted Angling]

Yeah I have a few different baits that I am happy with the way they swim with a few more coming up the r&d ladder. I really started building baits because I wanted stuff that just didn't exist. I'm just trying to increase the ease of assembly on myself and maximize strength. I'm at the point now where I am happy with look and action I want to start doing some very small scale runs. Nothing commercial just enough for me and my buddy's to have a good time with. I already kind of went down the rabbit hole of the commercial to no avail. I was looking at the small production injection molding machines and although there are some cheaper hobby ones none are capable of doing what I want. So I am basically just trying to maximize what I can do with the machine I already have.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

23 minutes ago, Hand Crafted Angling said:

Yeah I have a few different baits that I am happy with the way they swim with a few more coming up the r&d ladder. I really started building baits because I wanted stuff that just didn't exist. I'm just trying to increase the ease of assembly on myself and maximize strength. I'm at the point now where I am happy with look and action I want to start doing some very small scale runs. Nothing commercial just enough for me and my buddy's to have a good time with. I already kind of went down the rabbit hole of the commercial to no avail. I was looking at the small production injection molding machines and although there are some cheaper hobby ones none are capable of doing what I want. So I am basically just trying to maximize what I can do with the machine I already have.

Outside of prototyping till I achieve exactly what I want the blanks are fast once I am set up. I probably assemble my resin poured baits faster than you might think. It takes me max 5 min to pour a blank with all the hardware molded in

paint and clear coat are my time consuming part but I also run 5 layers of clear coat. If I was not building for toothy critters it would be way faster

I think you just need to look at all the options out there and find the right fit 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Oh and if it’s strength what you are describing would fall short compared to poured resin or foam lures with hardware molded right into the blank

I have had hollow commercial style baits cracked on the first strike many times 

But the species I target are hard on lures

[Flaswimbaiter]

1 hour ago, Hillbilly voodoo said:

Commercially made just means mass produced at a low cost. Many lack any creativity and have flaws

One of the main reasons I build baits is I am disappointed in the quality of most store bought baits. Even when I find commercial baits I like I find flaws in durability, fowling hooks or missing things action wise. I find myself designing a variant that doesn’t have the flaws

This is also one of the reasons I make my own. ^^^^^
 

if you want durability make printed blanks, silicone mold them and pour resin. I once yeeted a 3:16 four piece shad right onto a dock piling and it came back with barely a scratch. 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

31 minutes ago, Flaswimbaiter said:

This is also one of the reasons I make my own. ^^^^^
 

if you want durability make printed blanks, silicone mold them and pour resin. I once yeeted a 3:16 four piece shad right onto a dock piling and it came back with barely a scratch. 

On my musky trip to Ontario last month I bounced my baits off of rocks many times trying to get inches off of shield rock walls and reefs. It pays to be brave but it comes at a cost lol

No issues except for a small chip in the clear coat on one dive & rise jerk bait. But I was also deflecting that lure off of the rocks under the water for a week as well 

[Hand Crafted Angling]

Instersting never really gave the resin much thought. Are you guys making the diving lips out of it too?

[Hillbilly voodoo]

1 minute ago, Hand Crafted Angling said:

Instersting never really gave the resin much thought. Are you guys making the diving lips out of it too?

Closest I have done is if you google a lure called a believer I have made variations of those out style of lure

I have poured lexan lips into the resin body in the past

I quit working with crankbaits personally so I stopped exploring options here

[Hand Crafted Angling]

16 hours ago, Hillbilly voodoo said:

Closest I have done is if you google a lure called a believer I have made variations of those out style of lure

I have poured lexan lips into the resin body in the past

I quit working with crankbaits personally so I stopped exploring options here

Yeah that’s what I liked about the 3d printed lips is you can do custom shapes rather than just a flat piece of plastic. I might have to give the resin a try. What’s your guys adverage cost per lure body for a larger bait?

[Hillbilly voodoo]

2 hours ago, Hand Crafted Angling said:

Yeah that’s what I liked about the 3d printed lips is you can do custom shapes rather than just a flat piece of plastic. I might have to give the resin a try. What’s your guys adverage cost per lure body for a larger bait?

I buy in large quantities and I am Canadian so my cost is likely going to be different than what you will experience 

I can give you the brand/products I use and roughly what goes into one of my blanks. This will help you calculate a rough idea on your personal costs 

right now I am at work so I will have to check my recipe book when I get home to give you a rough idea on the mix used for one of my baits. Warning I do strange things and develop different recipes for each bait to achieve what I want. A lot of my lures have no lead and rely on different resin layers. So what I provide may vary from what others do

If you’re interested let me know. Also let me know the rough size of baits you intend to make because over the years I have made all kinds of lures including smaller stuff 

[Hand Crafted Angling]

39 minutes ago, Hillbilly voodoo said:

I buy in large quantities and I am Canadian so my cost is likely going to be different than what you will experience 

I can give you the brand/products I use and roughly what goes into one of my blanks. This will help you calculate a rough idea on your personal costs 

right now I am at work so I will have to check my recipe book when I get home to give you a rough idea on the mix used for one of my baits. Warning I do strange things and develop different recipes for each bait to achieve what I want. A lot of my lures have no lead and rely on different resin layers. So what I provide may vary from what others do

If you’re interested let me know. Also let me know the rough size of baits you intend to make because over the years I have made all kinds of lures including smaller stuff 

Yes I am definitely interested if you don’t mind the hassle. This is one of the finished baits I make currently. Picture is of an older version new lip is thicker. Comes in at just over 7” and about 3.5oz. I wonder if it would be possible for me to cast the bait in two halves and epoxy them together kind of like I’m doing now. That way I can keep my rattle chamber and don’t have to  figure out how to make a wire harness with ballast. I was hoping I can add an offset lip around the entire body for easy alignment.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

18 minutes ago, Hand Crafted Angling said:

Yes I am definitely interested if you don’t mind the hassle. This is one of the finished baits I make currently. Picture is of an older version new lip is thicker. Comes in at just over 7” and about 3.5oz. I wonder if it would be possible for me to cast the bait in two halves and epoxy them together kind of like I’m doing now. That way I can keep my rattle chamber and don’t have to  figure out how to make a wire harness with ballast. I was hoping I can add an offset lip around the entire body for easy alignment.

Yes you would just need to make two molds one for either half of your lure

You can suspend rattle chambers into a mold with light mono and pour them into the blank. Or drill a hole and use a metal plate on either side with a metal ball inside. There is options beyond what you are presently doing 

your hook hangers, joints and line ties would be way stronger poured into your blank vs glueing two halves together 

Something to consider is think about how to make your design using the attributes of resin pouring baits and develop a less complicated process vs just adding resin pour to your present process 

The way I am doing my lures I setup all the hardware/rattles into the mold pour it, sand to clean edges, paint, clear and done. With the exception of adding pins for soft tail or corkscrews for larger hybrid bait bodies and at times I drop in lead shot when pouring for extra weight with some lures

The trend I often see with guys getting into resin pouring lures is they over complicate it by trying to substitute something in their lure building process instead of realizing resin provides completely different options to lure building 

I recommend doing some research before jumping into resin consider how to apply it to lure building to see if it’s the right fit 

what I can tell you for starters I use moldmax 30 for my silicone molds. You will need micro balloons(brand has not mattered). For resin I use Alumilite white as I find I get less bubbles and it’s less brittle 

I will try to give you an example on the amount of resign/micro balloons I use for a design of similar size to yours tonight when I am off work 

[Hand Crafted Angling]

Thank you you make a great point of changing up the design process to suit the method. For making the mold I see no issue with just printing out a mold with the cad file I already made. It might be easier if I use a flexible plastic but that shouldn’t be an issue. Casting everything in one shot would definitely save me a ton of time. I guess I would just have to figure out the lips and ballast. For ballast I would rather cast it inside than drilling and filling holes. I’m sure I can figure out a way to suspend it inside. That would just leave the lip. I don’t really have the space to add a bandsaw to my shop it’s pretty tight as it is. The lip on that bait now is pretty thick as I had to beef it up in order to survive dropping. I wonder how it would hold up out of the resin but I’m guessing the only way to find that out is to test it.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

1 hour ago, Hand Crafted Angling said:

Thank you you make a great point of changing up the design process to suit the method. For making the mold I see no issue with just printing out a mold with the cad file I already made. It might be easier if I use a flexible plastic but that shouldn’t be an issue. Casting everything in one shot would definitely save me a ton of time. I guess I would just have to figure out the lips and ballast. For ballast I would rather cast it inside than drilling and filling holes. I’m sure I can figure out a way to suspend it inside. That would just leave the lip. I don’t really have the space to add a bandsaw to my shop it’s pretty tight as it is. The lip on that bait now is pretty thick as I had to beef it up in order to survive dropping. I wonder how it would hold up out of the resin but I’m guessing the only way to find that out is to test it.

I know nothing about computer design and 3D printing lures I just know how to make materials do what I want to make a lure

Only one way to figure out how the lip will hold up and that is try it. Almost everything I know is from trying ideas, failing, adjusting, and not giving up. No doubt I picked up some tips from the forum too

There is a lot of different ways and materials you can use to make lips. Start looking into your options 

Do some searchs for past posts on this forum there is tons of info 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

So for example one of my 6 1/2 inch baits that is solid no lead involves a mix of 70grams of resin and 6grams of micro balloons. This bait was designed to have a slow rise so less buoyant than most crankbaits

[Hand Crafted Angling]

19 hours ago, Hillbilly voodoo said:

So for example one of my 6 1/2 inch baits that is solid no lead involves a mix of 70grams of resin and 6grams of micro balloons. This bait was designed to have a slow rise so less buoyant than most crankbaits

I greatly appreciate your help I will definitely use your recipe as a starting reference. I think I came up with a workaround for the lip and weighting problem but that gonna require a bunch of testing on my part. If all goes well I should be able to have transparent molded in lips along with ballast.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

1 hour ago, Hand Crafted Angling said:

I greatly appreciate your help I will definitely use your recipe as a starting reference. I think I came up with a workaround for the lip and weighting problem but that gonna require a bunch of testing on my part. If all goes well I should be able to have transparent molded in lips along with ballast.

Remember my recipe has no added weight and uses resin as a ballast. It is also a slow rising bait not a crankbait

This example was given to help you estimate cost like you were first trying to figure out. It would not be a good recipe for a crankbait you are adding ballast to 

You will need a higher % of micro balloons for your bait. If you wish you can google search recipes to duplicate wood and add ballast. Personally I experiment with different mixes for each lure to achieve what I want 

The later option you involve trial and error 

[Hillbilly voodoo]

Sorry but you are going to need to do some testing, failing, and adapting if you want to get good at this stuff 

There is a ton of generic information that can be found online and YouTube if but if you want to figure out something beyond what is everywhere you need to try things out and experiment 

[Hand Crafted Angling]

On 8/8/2023 at 7:02 PM, Hillbilly voodoo said:

Sorry but you are going to need to do some testing, failing, and adapting if you want to get good at this stuff 

There is a ton of generic information that can be found online and YouTube if but if you want to figure out something beyond what is everywhere you need to try things out and experiment 

I appreciate all the help I’m gonna do some testing and see if it works. My plan is to resin 3d print a hollow air chamber attatched to the lure lip and then cast the alumilight around it. I will share in greater detail if it works out.

[Hillbilly voodoo]

1 hour ago, Hand Crafted Angling said:

I appreciate all the help I’m gonna do some testing and see if it works. My plan is to resin 3d print a hollow air chamber attatched to the lure lip and then cast the alumilight around it. I will share in greater detail if it works out.

Sounds like an interesting project that you could develop into something different if you get creative with it

good luck