Curious

[Tiderunner]

I see a whole bunch of molds I find interesting,and wouldn't mind adding to the inventory. But I'm trying to figure out why so many worm molds and in turn worms have a flat bottom.

Do these flat bottom worms fish differently? Is there an advantage to them? I do have some of my original molds I bought from 30 years ago, Open pour silicone, with flat bottoms, but these I use to make floating worms. The bottom is above the waterline so flat bottom means nothing.

A newer mold I bought had the option of half round or whole round. I went with whole round. I feel as though I have never seen a nightcrawler that was flat on one side. And I prefer to make baits as realistic as possible.

Even some commercially available baits are half round. Is there a valid reason for this, or is it just because?

Who here has the answer? Let me know because I have an inquiring mind...what's left of it that is.

[basskat]

The flat bottom actually gives the bait more action. A round bait displaces less water. 

[alsworms]

Senkos (or any knock off stick baits) and craws are really the only rounded baits I fish anymore.  Everything else is a hand-pour with a flat side, including swimbaits.  I seem to catch plenty of fish to keep this old man happy LOL. 

[jigmeister]

Most worms that are flat on the bottom are out of an open pour mold (1 piece) mold . Most full round baits are injected . Flat bottom worms can be poured with much softer plastic formulas for a softer worm .  Injected mold baits are typically made of harder plastic formula so they don't tear during the de-molding process and make a tougher bait for Texas rigging weedless with big hooks . 

[SpoonMinnow]

Sticks are sticks regardless of flat or full round. I've caught fish on both regardless of size though I prefer a full found for the slight side-to-side roll when retrieved - especially when it come to laminate colors.

Medium hardness is all I use and still get the darting back & forth action needed to whip or twitch lures, durability not really the issue. When it comes to silicone one-sided vs metal injection molds, I paint the silicone cavity with Fish Formula for a more shiny finish. 

Fish IMO aren't fussy when it comes to the many favorites I cast which I've posted on many forums. It's just a matter of - will they also attack this or that? Variety in my book is the spice and challenge of fishing.

No more dull live bait that sits in one spot trying to be appealing. Bring on the quivering, thumping, whipping, flapping actions that tickle the lateral line and cause the most irritation when trespassing a fish's space/ privacy.

Action - shape - size - color brightness: the only considerations in my book when it comes to annoying subsurface objects that fish have the need (but no imagination) to show who's boss. Thank the Lord there are so many combinations to chose from that allow me to pretend were the best (though fickle) choices able to catch so many fish on any one day.

Yours truly

Edited August 21, 2023 by SpoonMinnow

[alsworms]

8 hours ago, SpoonMinnow said:

Sticks are sticks regardless of flat or full round. I've caught fish on both regardless of size though I prefer a full found for the slight side-to-side roll when retrieved - especially when it come to laminate colors.

 

This is a great point.  I still have a bunch of my old hand-poured stick baits and to be honest, I'd rather fish those than the original.  I don't know if it's because I made them in colors you just don't see anywhere or I don't want Gary Yamamoto making any more money. 

[Tiderunner]

On 8/20/2023 at 10:27 PM, jigmeister said:

Most worms that are flat on the bottom are out of an open pour mold (1 piece) mold . Most full round baits are injected . Flat bottom worms can be poured with much softer plastic formulas for a softer worm .  Injected mold baits are typically made of harder plastic formula so they don't tear during the de-molding process and make a tougher bait for Texas rigging weedless with big hooks . 

I use MF soft sinking, then add softener to the plastisol.  With stick baits I prefer them the softer the better.

Never had a bait tear when demolding. I get more than one fish from each bait.

On 8/21/2023 at 12:36 PM, alsworms said:

This is a great point.  I still have a bunch of my old hand-poured stick baits and to be honest, I'd rather fish those than the original.  I don't know if it's because I made them in colors you just don't see anywhere or I don't want Gary Yamamoto making any more money. 

I can't say I use old baits for the same reasons as yours, but I will keep making them in colors that have been discontinued and have worked for me. I have all types of bait up the wazoo, but I still need to buy one or two that I haven't or can't perfectly duplicate.

 

On 8/21/2023 at 4:31 AM, SpoonMinnow said:

Sticks are sticks regardless of flat or full round. I've caught fish on both regardless of size though I prefer a full found for the slight side-to-side roll when retrieved - especially when it come to laminate colors.

I agree. I have never seen a flat worm in nature, and I try to make all baits appear as natural as they can be. I like wiggle. I like softness when wacky rigging, as though its something dead or dying. I like the quiver of a stick bait as it sinks.

So other than the cost of the mold, is there an advantage in a flat bottom bait over a full round? The only hand pour I still use is an old silicone paddle tail worm that I make to float high in the water. To slip over lilypads and weedtops. The fish never see the flat side. These were deadly! Especially on a cloudy day. I started making these over 30 years ago when Berkley discontinued their floating worm. It was still called a floating worm, but in really was a suspending bait. Then BassPro made something similar,floating lizards too, and there was another bait called a French fry. But none of any of these baits had a flat bottom.

[jigmeister]

"Never had a bait tear when demolding. I get more than one fish from each bait."

I was talking about large scale commercial production of injection molded  plastic baits by Manufacturers making hundreds or thousands of baits at a time as opposed to home pouring a 4 or 6 cavity injection mold . 

Roboworm machine pours very soft flat sided baits out of open pour molds 

I made a 3 piece full size Mad Man craw mold years with softer more lifelike legs and used MF soft plastic . I had to be very careful demolding that critter to keep it from tearing . A stick bait is much easier to  remove than something with appendages 

[hpssports]

Round worms with a taper actually have better action with less resistance in movement than a flat bottom worm. Think of it as a bullwhip. 

[Les Young]

Netbait makes a finesse worm that has a flat bottom. Can't think of the name but i have some in the boat. 

[SpoonMinnow]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:13 PM, Tiderunner said:

is there an advantage in a flat bottom bait over a full round?

IMO - no. How you present a lure  - any lure - what it's rigged on and the retrieve, are the only considerations in my book. Fish generally aren't in a feeding frenzy and lures provoke aggression from neutral fish. Worms or soft sticks and other soft plastics, unlike spinnerbaits and crankbaits, are designed for a slow irregular retrieve that fish get a good look at before striking. 

Talk about flat sides. The French Fry with its four, flat sides is just as effective as a round or semi-round stick. I attach French Fry segments to various tails which get bit by many species of fish. Round or semi round grubs or worms are overrated in my book.

 

 

As far as natural looking, how many lures that you've caught fish on were natural in shape or action. I stopped pretending years ago that it mattered and now strictly focus on whatever it is about a lure that caught fish - action and shape.

Edited August 28, 2023 by SpoonMinnow

[Tiderunner]

On 8/27/2023 at 10:42 PM, SpoonMinnow said:

IMO - no. How you present a lure  - any lure - what it's rigged on and the retrieve, are the only considerations in my book. Fish generally aren't in a feeding frenzy and lures provoke aggression from neutral fish. Worms or soft sticks and other soft plastics, unlike spinnerbaits and crankbaits, are designed for a slow irregular retrieve that fish get a good look at before striking. 

Talk about flat sides. The French Fry with its four, flat sides is just as effective as a round or semi-round stick. I attach French Fry segments to various tails which get bit by many species of fish. Round or semi round grubs or worms are overrated in my book.

Do they still make French Fry style baits? I haven't seen those in over 25 years. I may still have some floating ones somewhere. Had holes in them to trap air and keep them floating. When they'd start to sink. You squeeze the water out of the holes and start over.

As far as presentation, my borther in law can shoot holes all through that theory. Not because he's good at it, but because he actually sucks at fishing! His stick baits are wrapped around the hook all twisted up, Grubs he leaves hanging off the hook. I mean he's worse than taking a 6 year old fishing~ But somehow he catches fish. Often in ways that shouldn't catch anything. And my son does a lot of experimenting. Wacky worms everything. Grubs, craws. And he catches fish. But he's doing it on purpose.Just wants to see if different ways work. And it usually does.

On 8/27/2023 at 10:42 PM, SpoonMinnow said:

As far as natural looking, how many lures that you've caught fish on were natural in shape or action. I stopped pretending years ago that it mattered and now strictly focus on whatever it is about a lure that caught fish - action and shape.

I know of noting n the water that is chartreuse, that swims. Nothing with a bunch of legs like a jig skirt. Craw with weird looking flippers where claws should be. But I fish whatever works for whatever reason. When trying to "match the hatch" so to speak, I concentrate on color. I see what bait is in the water, and try to duplicate the color. That's how I got started making baits. Couldn't find the colors I wanted so I made my own. I bet most of us got a start that way.

As far as round grubs and worms. That's all I'll use. Full round. Whether my homemade stuff or commercial. Where I do most of my smallmouth fishing, the full round is all that entices them. Be it, Mass, New Hampshire or Maine. The fat neko style worms work better than flat. Full round 5" twin tail grubs. We have tried different types, and those full round work so much better. One different though...Drop Shot worms. The body shape doesn't seem to matter. Of course, you're using your fish finder to target the fish.

When talking LMB, they don't seem to turn up their noses to flat sided baits that much.

But it still begs the question. Why are some baits flat on one side. Hand pour swimbaits don't count. It's typically worms.

I see one mold maker offers some baits with either flat side or full round.

There is no right way or wrong way. I'm just kind of curious how the flat bottom baits got a start.

[Les Young]

I'd say the flat bottom molds are for folks that want to imitate a hand pour which as you know is usually flat bottomed. 

[SpoonMinnow]

Quote

Do they still make French Fry style baits? 

Zoom Centipede Stick is similar in shape

Edited September 5, 2023 by SpoonMinnow

[SpoonMinnow]

Quote

And I prefer to make baits as realistic as possible

Realism and natural-looking are overrated in my book. Long ago I targeted bass when I fished tournaments and used typical bass lures such as Texas rigged 10" worms always with curl tail, spinnerbaits with different sizes and shaped blades, jigs with pork trailers (UJ Frog), deep dive crankbaits and many different surface and shallow running lures. Lesson learned after catching bass on all of them:  lures don't convince fish a lure is a real live animal but rather hit their senses where it counts by turning on the attack mode in its simple brain.

example: 2 lb bass in my pond lay on the bottom near when I stand on my dock because I fed them live yellow perch, 4" or larger that were caught in another lake. 20 sunnies attack bits of bread over them. So I thought, why not chuck a large piece of bread and see what the bass would do. Sure enough one attacked it but then spit it out because bass don't eat bread. Size mattered! 

A strip of bread has no action on the surface but neither does a dead yellow perch as it floats. Could be the bass thought it was just another fish to eat same as the crappie and white perch I fed them last week.

Getting back to flat sided lures. The bread and the fish that fish eat have flat sides; worms and leeches are round - BUT SO WHAT!?? My thing is to find what sets off a fish's aggression trigger regardless how weird and unnatural (preferable at times) a lure looks and acts. I will never refer to my lures as minnows, frogs or crawdads. Fish don't / can't.

When it comes to French Fry stick body segments attached to various action tails, the ribbed sides are texured and various tail shapes determines what the body does - as usual.  I value the lures pictured and have a great deal of confidence in them because of the many fish and fish species they caught. Others have used my lures and did well. 

So, regardless of what belief you or I hold as the reason fish strike lures, where and how fish are caught are at the top of the list.

Edited September 6, 2023 by SpoonMinnow