Fish_N_Fool Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 I'm just curious what it takes to get one of these and what the costs are. I've read alot about this lately , and wondered if I should look into doing some thing in this line. How many of you small bait makers have any thing to protect your names or designs? If any of you have gotten any of these I'd like to hear how you went about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 FF, Forget the Patent thing. You are looking around 5000 dollars to do it. It really won't help you with a lure because all someone has to do is make a slight change in the original lure and they are legal. If you have a neat saying or slogan then you may want to copywrite it. Like Skeeter boats did with their saying " Eat, Sleep, Fish". If you have a good symbol for your baits then you can trademark it with your division of business services for your state government. State Gov. have a trademarks div. It is not expensive. I believe most are less that $50. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 I'm with skeeter...put your time into your baits!!! Don't waste good money on patents, etc. It will just cost you more when you accuse someone of violating the patent, copyright, etc. Trademark might be worth it.. just my 2 cents!! Jim (Ghost Baits...not trademarked ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeVeryTY Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 You know, up until about 5 minutes ago I would have given the same advice but my wife noticed in this month's outdoor canada magazine , fishing 2005 special issue, the special honour best canadian product is something that looks amazingly like one of MY LURES. yep a GLASS LURE!!!!!!! a frigging glass lure done with my style of eye, wire through the center. Up until a year ago no one on the planet was doing a glass lure that looked remotely like mine in design, style, colors or shapes and some one does a (I went back & deleted what I first typed) and gets a BEST CANADIAN PRODUCT award, with a full page picture and special honor to boot! I'm so pissed right now. My wife tells me the lures aren't as "nice" as mine and she's sure he came up with it on his own. Maybe. But I'm seriously doubting it. So you know what I'm going to look into patenting and unless my wife threatens divorce I'm probably going to do it no matter what the cost. Sensible be damned. Rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overkill Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 My wife and I have looked into the patenting process, both for fishing lures and a product of hers. I also have an uncle who went through the whole process to get a patent on a new metal building insulation system, it cost him 12,000$. First- the kids working at the patent office are encoraged to only allow so many patents, so many times they may request your patent claim to be revised and resubmitted=more lawyer dollars. Second-let me tell you about two stories where brand new innovative products were made and patented and still ripped off. Two college guys started a company making fire escape ladders for second story windows. They are a collapsible ladder that fits into a small box for easy storage until the emergency arises. One of the guys was at a trade show promoting his product when he saw the exact same product at a major safety equipment company called Kidde. If you look at the store most fire extenguishers and some smoke alarms are made by Kidde. (this really burns me) He looked at the package of the ripped off product and it had his same pictures, they were members of his family College guys take Kidde to court, judge says yes patent was violated and kidde owes college guys 300G's. However, Kidde gets to keep making them (I don't buy kidde products ever) You know those little paper jackets they put on coffe cups and Starbucks to keep from burning your hands? Well the guy that invented those got a patent. He took them to Starbucks to try to sell them. Starbucks said "thats a great idea" so they made their own-end of story It all comes down to deniro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 I have a friend who has over $20,000 into a patent for an extension cord that wont kink or twist, its been 3 years & the patent still isnt final. Ive contacted a variety of bait manufacturers asking them thier take on how small time lure inventors can properly solicit thier idea to an established manufacturer. Im awaiting a response from Greg Garst of garst manufacturing, he can probably alleviate alot of concerns regarding proper design protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 DeVeryTY, I have seen this happen before. There was a site that some of the old guys here use to frequent and it happened to someone there. Redg8r was one of the tallented folks that frequented that site. Then that site fell apart and Red started this one. ( I am very thankful that he did). But you have to remember that an awful lot of people cruise this website every day. MANY of them are guests. I truely believe that there are many of the larger bait companies searching out information on this site also. When we share our secrets and pictures of our baits on this site, you are opening yourself up for posibility of this type of thing happening. Isn't it something how the price of manufactured crankbaits have gone up? I really believe that the manufactures see the prices that some of the custom bait makers are getting and decided to raise the price of theirs also. Last year you could buy a Bagley BII Square bill for 5.19. Now they are 9.99. There are some very tallented bait makers on this site. There have been some outstanding ideas from the members posted here. Not only do we teach people how to do things, but we also give them pictures and tutorials. There are also some very tallented people that just visit this site daily that are not actual members. Believe me, they are learning alot. People like you and I consider ourselves hobbiests, or avid fishmen that have a passion for making the best possible baits that we can. But many of the ideas and techniques that have been brought to this site by us amatuers are actually cutting edge. Anyone, including companies and individuals, can learn much from this site. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhopper Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I'm just curious what it takes to get one of these and what the costs are. The cost varies depending on the type of patent you are seeking,, a design patent which is worthless, in my opinion, on most inventions, but can have a limited protection on lures as this protects what something "looks like" it has little to do with function, but in lures sometimes the looks are what you want to protect,, or all you can protect. Many lures have never been patented, and now cant get a patent on them, (well it's possible to get one, but not enforce it) because they have been published and sold by others. Design patent cost around 1500 dollars for getting it draw up and filing You can't file for any patent after 12 months of the invention being published, disclosed, used in public, or sold, or even offered for sale. Well you can file after these but you can't get the patent to stand up, if anyone knocks it off, and can prove any of the above. Utility patents run anywhere from 3500 dollars to 100,000 dollars, with the average costing around 8 thousand or so. It all depends on how many office actions is involved, each time that patent attorney or agent has to answer to the USPO it's going to cost you. I have one that cost 13,000, and another that will cost around 11,000 just for the legal fees. I license my inventions so I don't pay these cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhopper Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 FF' date='Forget the Patent thing. You are looking around 5000 dollars to do it. It really won't help you with a lure because all someone has to do is make a slight change in the original lure and they are legal. [/quote'] This may or may not be true, in design patents some change is all it takes,, a judge will determine how much, if it gets taken that far. On Utility patents you are mistaken, if you infringe on just one claim of the patent,, you have broken the patent law,, and looks actually have litttle to do with most of the claims. A little side note that most people don't know You can have an issued patent, and still not have the rights to make your product. A patent does not give the patent holder the right to make his patented product, it gives him the right to keep others from making it, selling it, or even just "personally" using it If you have a neat saying or slogan then you may want to copywrite it. You actually can't copyright sayings,, these fall under the trade mark laws Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents, can not be copyrighted Like Skeeter boats did with their saying " Eat, Sleep, Fish". Trade Mark 75313587 If you have a good symbol for your baits then you can trademark it with your division of business services for your state government. State Gov. have a trademarks div. It is not expensive. I believe most are less that $50. Skeeter Unless you just want a local trade mark, don't fool around with state ones, go for the real McCoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhopper Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 You know' date=' up until about 5 minutes ago I would have given the same advice but my wife noticed in this month's outdoor canada magazine , fishing 2005 special issue, the special honour best canadian product is something that looks amazingly like one of MY LURES. yep a GLASS LURE!!!!!!!a frigging glass lure done with my style of eye, wire through the center. Up until a year ago no one on the planet was doing a glass lure that looked remotely like mine in design, style, colors or shapes and some one does a [i'](I went back & deleted what I first typed)[/i] and gets a BEST CANADIAN PRODUCT award, with a full page picture and special honor to boot! I'm so pissed right now. My wife tells me the lures aren't as "nice" as mine and she's sure he came up with it on his own. Maybe. But I'm seriously doubting it. So you know what I'm going to look into patenting and unless my wife threatens divorce I'm probably going to do it no matter what the cost. Sensible be damned. How long has it been since you invented the lure ? How long has it been since you published the lure ? If it has been less than a year on publishing it or offering it for sell you might be able to file now, and burn their butts. It depends on the details of all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhopper Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I have a friend who has over $20' date='000 into a patent for an extension cord that wont kink or twist, its been 3 years & the patent still isnt final.It takes a long time sometimes Ive contacted a variety of bait manufacturers asking them thier take on how small time lure inventors can properly solicit thier idea to an established manufacturer. Im awaiting a response from Greg Garst of garst manufacturing, he can probably alleviate alot of concerns regarding proper design protection.[/quote'] I do this all the time,, I protect things with a paper trail, log book, and S.S. balls. I let them know, I know the patent laws (we are a first to invent country) which means I have 12 motnhs after "public disclosure" to file for a patent . Another great way to protect your self is with a Non Disclosure Agreement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Hello Rockhopper and welcome aboard! I have read/heard that if you have an idea and are lacking the resources to set in motion the patent process. You can draw a diagram and/or explain in detail what you intend on seeking a patent for, then mail the info in a registered letter to yourself as means to protect your idea. In the event, there is any dispute as to who originated the idea first and when. Is that a valid statement? When you mentioned: "I license my inventions" does this grant you exclusive marketing rights to that idea? Could you elaborate on what a Non Disclosure Agreement is? There is no doubt your knowledge is a tremendous benefit to all here at TU and I am anxiously awaiting to hear more about the patent process. Thanks and Best Regards Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhopper Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Hello Rockhopper and welcome aboard! I have read/heard that if you have an idea and are lacking the resources to set in motion the patent process. You can draw a diagram and/or explain in detail what you intend on seeking a patent for' date=' then mail the info in a registered letter to yourself as means to protect your idea. In the event, there is any dispute as to who originated the idea first and when. Is that a valid statement? [/quote'] NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! This is a MYTH, it will not even be allowed to enter the court room as evidence. Some of the Scammers tell people to do this When you mentioned: "I license my inventions" does this grant you exclusive marketing rights to that idea? No "I" grant others the exclusive rights to manufacture and market my inventions Could you elaborate on what a Non Disclosure Agreement is? It is a contract, where the comapny signing it says the invention is yours (unless it's not actualy something new) they they will keep it secrete, and they will not manufacturer or sell it without another contract signed by you. This keeps the 1 year clock from starting as you have not publicly disclosed your idea. I have copies of these types of agreements where you just fill in the blanks There is no doubt your knowledge is a tremendous benefit to all here at TU and I am anxiously awaiting to hear more about the patent process. There is a lot to it it took me years to learn what I needed to know to play this game. Thanks and Best Regards Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Rockhopper Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions! You made a few things clear for me. Thanks Again! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhopper Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Rockhopper Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions! You made a few things clear for me. Thanks Again! Dan If you or others need NDA's just let me know I can email you one There are other ways to protect your new product, but NEVER file for a patent until you "need" one, you can license before you file if you play the game by the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
