Tying Walleye jigs

[Tailor Maid]

Hey deadly,

Can I ask you a question? Don't know if you can asnwer it or not?

I tie walleye jigs. Usually 1/16, 1/8, 1/4. Normally on a minnow style head. In colors like perch, white/blk, blk, brn etc. I build the collar up with thread (blk or brn) until it's parallel to the thickness of the bucktail. Coat it with epoxy. They usually look pretty good. I'm satisfied with the results and they catch fish.

Now to the question. When the "Walleyefiles" look at them, they say"that's a good one, that's not, that's not, that is" etc...

To my eye I can't see the difference. I can ask them, but that's about a month away!

As a streamer tyer, what do you look for in consistancy or "pattern"? Any idea what they might be looking at?

Thanks!

[deadlystreamer]

Wow Carl! I've never asked the fish about that. You can look at a fly, streamer, jig or whatever and tell it it's made on a machine or custom tied by hand. I prefer hand tied tackle myself. I don't think the fish cares one way or another. If it catches fish, then it's a good one. If it falls apart when used, then that's a bad one.

I tie hundreds of Streamers every year and I don't think any two of them are exactly alike. Your jigs will be the same. There is something said about hand tied tackle. It shows that some one still cares. A machine would make our job a heck of a lot easier, but it wouldn't be the same.

I don't know if I gave you the answer you were looking for, I hope I helped some. Good luck to you.

[Tailor Maid]

No, I just figured as a fly tyer, the idiosyncrasies of trout, maybe you may have come across something I didn?t know about! I think it?s strictly in the eye of the beholder. But, having said that in my eye they look OK!

Thanks for the input!!!

[Big Splash]

If they pick one over another I would say it has to do with proportion, or perhaps material quality. A fly 'looks' right with the 'correct' amount, or length of materials. This standard may varry form one location to another, or change over seasons.

[Tailor Maid]

OK? So what you're saying is the thickness and length would determine it. In most cases walleye jigs are bucktail or maribou. With bucktail, when you tighten up on the tie, it flairs. How can you control the thickness? I know you can trim it...is there a way to control the profile?

And the collar also seems to be a concern. I keep wrapping thread to build up the collar. Is that the only way to build it up? It's a lot of winds. I try to bring the collar up to a little less than the head (per the protottype)

Thanks

[Celticav]

The tension is what makes the bucktail flare out, the first wrap should be loose, second tighter and so on, with practice you can control the flare easily.

[Big Splash]

The tightness of the wraps, and the quality of the bucktail ( poor quality hair is hollow, like deer body hair, and will flare out of control). Be sure to use a good glue, and you will have more freedom with the tension of the wraps. I assume you are tying on behind the collar, then filling the collar with tying thread. You could fill the collar area a bit with cheap thread before you start the tie. Have you tried tying the hair right in the collar? Sometimes you can adjust the flare by tying in the collar, and moving the tension wraps closer, or farther away from the buldge in the collar. You can start your tie behind the collar (on the hook), then move the next , overlaping layers of hair up into the collar. This way you get a smaller, neater head.

[deadlystreamer]

I'll try to stick some info here, Take it for what it's worth.

When using buck tail, it depends on the buck tail. The hair at the end of the tail is better then the hair at the butt end of it. That's where the hollow hair is and that's great for tying a frog popper or a bug that has a brush cut look to it. You can make all winds tight and trim the hair to get the brush cut look. Nice for making poppers.

The middle and top end of the tail is good for tying jigs and streamers. But there again the chunk of hair you cut off to use has a lot of lose hollow ends in it that needs to be pulled out. If you don't pull that lose stuff out, you'll have a bulky end to tie down and that's where the trouble begins. When you get it all tied down, you can pull the hair out by giving it a good tug. That is no good because a fish might grab the end of the hair and get a mouth full of hair and you'll end up with a jig and no fish. not to mention how that fish will feel with a mouth full of hair.

I've found that what ever I tie, those first few wraps are the most important because that's what will hold it together. There again is where I put a dab of clear lacquer and continue to add or finish off the head.

Yes there is a lot of wasted thread in tying a jig or streamer. It's very important to make those first wraps tight and if you need to let the thread sit unattended, make a half hitch and snug the thread in tight.

When I tie a buck tail or a squirrel tail, I lay the hair where I want it and make two or three tight wraps and trim the hair off that sprouts up and then as I wrap the thread around I cover it all, it's being secured tightly as I cover it up and make the head. Tight is the secret to tying a bait that will last forever.

When you get a bait finished, hold it so you won't bury that hook in your finger and grasp the hair in your other hand and pull hard, if it comes out, will, that's what I mean by keeping it tight. There is where you dab a good layer of clear lacquer that will seap into the thread and make a nice hard lasting head and or collar.

I used to have guys tie my streamers for me, until one day I pulled on some that they had tied and it came apart. That was the end. I tie them all myself now and I know they're tight.

Good looks will sell a bait, Durability will get continued sales. One that falls apart make you lonely bait maker.

Are we having fun yet?

OK you guys, I tried. You both make some nice looking baits and probably know what I just said. But there may be others that read this and might learn something. That's what were about. Right?

[Celticav]

I usually wrap the hair once and let the bobbin hold tension on it while I set back and make sure thats where I want it to be before going any further, I end up with too many that are not straight or porportioned correctly. I am still a newbie at this tying stuff... I got the kyrstal flash down for the most part, but still have problems with it flaring and hair/fur gives me fits! I remember the first time I tied bucktail and gave the first loop a nice hard tug to make sure I had it on tight enuf, suddenly all the tips stood up, like they were looking at me, lol! Deadly Streamer, do you ever use soft loops and how do they help with securing the hair and keeping it managable? Also, these bucktail trebles you mentioned... do you sell them? I want some of your streamers to frame for my study also and am planning on ordering them soon, can you pm me about the trebles? Also, what do you tie with the squirrel tail??? its the only hair I have consistent success with and looks great on smaller spinnerbaits. Great info, still haven't gotten any clear laquer, but its on my list, Jim.

[Tailor Maid]

Well, that's great! I didn't realize the different types of hair in the bucktail. None too soon! I'm probably starting this weekend. So the information is timely.

One more question...

I remember Celt asking about clear laquer in another post (somewhere) and I don't think it was ever answered (?????). Clear laquer???Anything in particular...brand name...does it matter????

Thanks again guys!

[deadlystreamer]

Hi Jim, I personally don't care for a bobbin because it gets in my way. I use the half hitch to hold stuff in place. My way of thinking, nothing beats a good knot. But in the defense of the bobbin, If that's the way a person learns to tie, Then that's for him if he likes it. I might sit and tie 3 or 4 dozen streamers at a time and never lay my scissors down. especially when tying with buck or squirrel tail. I'm always trimming the unwanted hair off to make a nice finish.

You asked if I use loose wraps? No never. Any time you use loose wraps, your leaving room in there behind your nice finished head for water to get in or just come apart with time. Always wrap each turn to leave no air or space for it to move and come apart. When you cut and lay deer hair on the hook shaft or jig hook and you make those first few turns and the ends look up at you, you could be using the hollow hair, or you could have left the unwanted fur and butt ends in that clump, remember to always use your finger or your scissors to flip that stuff loose and pull it out, Then make your first few wraps and trim anything that is in the way and continue on with your fly or what ever. The big secret is tight. That clear lacquer on top of your first few wraps will seal it up too. You cannot use to much lacquer. If it gets in the eye, let it dry and poke it out with a sharp tool.

No I don't sell the buck tail trebles. I'll be more then happy to make some up for you if you tell me what size hook you want. I make some for my own use but have never sold them. The part to remember when tying a treble hook is there are two more barbs waiting to grab your finger as your tying.

When I get this finished, I'll take a picture of what I've been playing with on the trebles and send it to you on your email. I'd put it here but I need to take the picture. You can see that you can do just about anything with them

Oh one more thing, you asked what I tie with the squirrel tails. I use the fox and gray squirrel to make two of the Deadly Streamer patterns.

I've used them on a hook set up on a night crawler harness that I've made for personal use. Once you get into this stuff and have a different things lying around, your mind will dream up all kinds of stuff to play with. It's a fun relaxing form of entertainment to amuse your self. THEN go catch a fish on it..

Hope I was of some help Jim. I'll pop that picture off to you right away.

[Celticav]

Thanks for taking the time to post so much Deadly, it really helps up newbies out!!!

[deadlystreamer]

Hi Tailor Maid, You asked;

I remember Celt asking about clear laquer in another post (somewhere) and I don't think it was ever answered (?????). Clear laquer???Anything in particular...brand name...does it matter????

I don't think the brand makes a difference. I'll tell you where I get mine and you can take it from there. These people are great to do business with and they are fast.

The Angler Supply House in Pa.

Phone # 1-800-362-6612

email info@anglersupplyhouse.com

The lacquor is part # 1722 and is a 2oz bottle for 2.30

The thinner is part # 1762 and is a 2oz bottle for 2.00

That will be your most important purches. Pour a small amount into a little air tight bottle to use when tying. It'll harden or stiffen up and that's where you'll need the thinner.You can't beat it.

Have fun this weekend. Also have a nice Easter.

[Tailor Maid]

Thanks Deadly...this is great infomation. I'll try the laquer...and you have a great Eastern too!!!

[NL LUremaker]

When tying my Walleye Bucktail Jigs I use a Water-Based Head Cement by"Loon Outdoors". It doesn't have any solvents in it or any toxic vapors, which makes it nice if you package your jigs up later in small zip-loc bags. You don't have that terrible smell while you are tying and your jigs don't smell when you take them out of the bag. You can buy it at Gander Mountain or at any good fly tying shop. Be sure to get the Water-Based and not the Solvent-Based, the bottles that they come in are identical.

[Gr8flyz]

I buy several hundred bucktails each year, and sort thru them to use for certain types of tying. For smaller "hair jigs" used for bass fishing, I look for the finest textured hair I can find, for bucktail jigs, which are tied longer, I use the coarser hair, especially if it will be used on the large saltwater jigs.

Most of my jigs are tied rather sparse, so when I want to get a full looking jig, without adding a lot of hair I use deertails that have crinkly looking hair. The finer straight haired tails I will save for tying streamer flies. The more hollow hair, at the base of the tail can also be used for giving the appearance of fullness, because of the flairing, but I try to use this type of hair only on the larger jigs. Often, I'll mix small amounts of hair from the base & tip to get the result I want, instead of just cutting hair from a single area of the tail.

Depending on the jig size, I use different threads. Most of my smaller jigs are tied with Danville Flat Waxed Nylon, or Fluorescent Depth Ray Nylon, which is not waxed. Both are strong and lie flat. I also use these for many of the flies I tie.

I also use nylon jig thread for very small jigs, and larger nylon thread for larger jigs. The larger thread fills the collar with less wraps.

I buy some of these on 3/4 oz spools and use a bobbin made for rod wrapping. I do a lot of tying!

Clear lacquers, and thinner can also be obtained in some hardwares, and from body shop paint suppliers in pints or quarts.