Why is it ok to steal?

[Mattlures]

I have seen people copy baits and sell them on Ebay. I have read post were somebody got a letter from a compny telling them to stop useing there name. Than I read responses telling him to just switch the first letters of the name around so he wouldnt be using the trademarked name.

So the way I see it , You get a mold of SOMEBODY ELSES bait and use a name that looks like or sounds like the original name, That is stealing! Why not make your own design? there is enough information on this site for anybody with a little expeiriance to design and produce thier own baits.

now its diferent if you make a Senko copy for your own use, but when you start selling them you are robbing yamamoto. Why not change it a little or even improve it? I am sure this will upset some members but deep down you know I am wright. I read a post from another board where a TU member was saying if could figure out how I paint he would get a mold and copy my baits. That makes me mad! There is a post wright now where somebody stoll some pictures. That is also wrong, but its not nearly as wrong as copying and selling someone elses bait. Now i have heard that everything has been already done before, and that is an excuse to be lazy and just steal somone elses hard work. Its ok to use an idea or make something similar but to outright copy.. That is stealing!

[overkill]

I have to agree, Come up with new ideas or improve old ones. Exact coping seems lame to me.

[overkill]

Actually, I saw your baits at your gill baits at Wal-mart tonight Matt. They said Storm on the package though Seriously they were a smaller but almost identical version of your gills

[Mattlures]

No I dont think anybody has stoll my baits yet. I dont think it would be very cost efective to duplicate my quality.It just takes to much time and they are too labor intensive. Storm may have seen my originals but They still didint steal them. I am not realy woried about them anyways. I think mine are mutch better quality. It just bothers me that people cant make their own. I would like to post tutorials or give up some secrets but there are to many thieves out there. Its sad but true. I do pour worms and Senkos buy I would never even consider selling them. They are not my ideas. I might sell something similar in the future but I would carve my own masters and make my own molds.

I dont mean to sound holier then thou but its not that hard to come up with your own Ideas. Think about this. How many diferent typs of creature baits are there? So why copy a Sweet Beaver? just make your own.

[rockhopper]

I have seen people copy baits and sell them on Ebay. I have read post were somebody got a letter from a compny telling them to stop useing there name. Than I read responses telling him to just switch the first letters of the name around so he wouldnt be using the trademarked name.

This is a misconception' date=', if you brought out a new soft drink with the name of "Poke" " Koke" even "hope" Coka Cola would nail you for trademark infringment[/color']

You can not legaly try to make your mark sound or look like another's when marketing jsut a similur product, doing so does endeed infringe on the Trade Mark

So the way I see it , You get a mold of SOMEBODY ELSES bait

Now this depends, if the bait is patented, then you have stolen it, now if it was never patented then you have just copied it,, legal but maybe not eithical

and use a name that looks like or sounds like the original name, That is stealing!

Name is stealing

Why not make your own design? there is enough information on this site for anybody with a little expeiriance to design and produce thier own baits.

I agree just from an inventing stand point

now its diferent if you make a Senko copy for your own use, but when you start selling them you are robbing yamamoto.

Not true,, let me clear up this "special" baits situation

The Senko was never patented, Gary didn't think it deserved one, it was 7 years old before it took off on the market, and started making huge amounts of money,, so legaly you can copy it, for personal use or sale.

Now if Gary Had patented it,, you would be STEALING it, if you even made it for personal use. Gary could actually sue you for patent infringment if you made only one for your self

Why not change it a little or even improve it?

Changing a patented lure a little or even emproving it alot, does not mean your not still infringing on that lure's patent, it all depends on the claims in the patent, and a lot of times those claims have nothing to do with the looks of the lure

I am sure this will upset some members but deep down you know I am wright. I read a post from another board where a TU member was saying if could figure out how I paint he would get a mold and copy my baits. That makes me mad!

Those same people would be mad as well if they came up with a new lure

There is a post wright now where somebody stoll some pictures.

WHoa here guys, stealing photo's is serious, that's Copyright infringment

That is also wrong, but its not nearly as wrong as copying and selling someone elses bait. Now i have heard that everything has been already done before, and that is an excuse to be lazy and just steal somone elses hard work. Its ok to use an idea or make something similar but to outright copy.. That is stealing!

Again that depends, if it is not patented or patent pending ,then techicaly it's not stealing, although , like you I think it's eithicly and moraly wrong

[Fish_N_Fool]

Matt, I do tend to agree. I would not like it if someone started coping my baits, but I think the real thieves here are the companies that are making molds and selling them to anyone that wants to buy one. Like Lure Craft, Bob's and others. I would think if anyone should be sued it would be these guys. But I'm sure they are not making molds of any copywrited baits.

I make my own molds and almost ever bait I have is my own design. I try hard to come up with new and sometimes strange ideas to offer something that the other soft bait guys don't have. But in the world of soft plastics thats not easy.

My Bleeding pearl shad dead stick bait is one thats truely unique I think, as well as your billgill swimbaits.

But not all baits can be a one of a kind, So I think that if you can call up LC or Del and order a mold for one then your not stealing anything at all.

[Mattlures]

I dont think the mold makers are doing any thing wrong I dont have a problem with a guy trying to save a buck by pouring his own copies. It just bothers me to see them selling them. Why not just create your own.

I dont care if a bait is patented or not. I would never copy someone elses bait and sell it. All the info is here on TU. It isnt that hard to create your own style or ideas.

[WaterWerx]

There is a post wright now where somebody stoll some pictures. That is also wrong, but its not nearly as wrong as copying and selling someone elses bait.

Matt,

I'm fairly new here and I know you were talking about copying lures, but this part of your post caught my eye.

I'm having trouble with this part of the post. See I'm a photographer and as a photographer all of my work carries copyrights which are MINE and if someone else uses my images without my permission then it is THEFT and it is just as SEVERE as what you mentioned actually worse, as I do register my photo's with the US Copyright office in groups of 25-36 at a time. So I have the legal means and recourse to take action.

How can you even begin to say that stealing an image isn't as bad as stealing a bait design? I'm sorry but theft is theft, it doesn't matter to me whether it's a photo, an actual item, a design, drawn idea....there is no distinction between severities of thieves. They are thieves and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent that the law allows!

I'm not trying to make any waves here...or call you out by any means. I just want you to think about how that sounds. "Stealing an image is wrong, but not nearly as wrong as copying someone elses bait and selling them"...Well if it's my image and takes money away from me that is rightfully mine then it hurts my wallet. Just as someone stealing your baits and selling thier copies takes money away from you....there is no distinction between the 2.

Protect your designs, images, products....it's not always cheap, but it helps.

Now copyrighting photos costs alot less than patents and patent research on baits and other products, I know this, but you really afford not to get it done?

Matt I looked at your webpage...Man those are some awesome looking baits! Very realisticly in coloring! Good Job!

[rockhopper]

I dont think the mold makers are doing any thing wrong

I dont have a problem with a guy trying to save a buck by pouring his own copies. It just bothers me to see them selling them. Why not just create your own.

I dont care if a bait is patented or not. I would never copy someone elses bait and sell it. All the info is here on TU. It isnt that hard to create your own style or ideas.

If a mold maker is making, a mold on a patented lure, that mold maker is breaking the patent laws, he is subject to being sued by the patent holder or the licensee, assignee of the patent, the judgement of such a suet "could" cost him everything he owns, or even will own, for the rest of his life. It is also possible for the guy just just pouring his own to be sued.

The guy making and selling them is taking a huge risk.

Of course if the lure is not patented, or curently under an active patent then, no big deal legaly. It's up to all parties involved to know if they are infringing. A lot of times the patent holder let's them know just with an invitation to join them in court. so if your making money with selling a lure design,, or any product, even one you came up with yourself, you had better know if you are infringing on another's patent, even if you never plan on filing one yourself

[Senkosam]

It's interesting you brought up mold making companies. According to Dave from Lure Craft, anything that attempts to duplicate nature is unpatentable. Pretty much all lures fall into this category. I suspect he's blowing smoke, but only know of the process and result of salt in plastic, that was patented by Gene Larew. Very few lures are patented.

Regarding copying, the plastic worm has been around a long time and redesigned by hundreds of companies. Some designs have been copied exactly, but given a different name. Others have minor changes, but are still straight lengths of plastic with a hook inserted. Just about every commercial product has been copied and then changed a wee bit to avoid patent infringement.

Of course we sell copied or modified designs of others. A swim bait is still a Sassy Shad, except the jig head is molded in. If you didn't design the thumper tail and attach it to a slab body, you copied it and Storm's swimbaits. Personally I see lurecrafting as an art form and art cannot be patented. When you come up with a super realistic color pattern (Matt's), you have created what some would consider a work of art. Some famous fly tiers have sold their fly's for hundreds and these will never hit the water, being collector's items.

Many of my laminate color schemes have never been made or sold, but I would be flattered if they were copied and sold, knowing I couldn't do a d**n thing about it and that my unique scheme may have already be originated by someone else - the same as most plastic designs here or elsewhere. A color scheme doesn't make it different.

How many of us have sent a royalty check to Larew after selling our salt impregnated soft plastic lures when his patent was still in effect? If the answer is no one, then none can take the high road.

Stik-O sounds a lot like Senko and is perfectly legal to use, as is the cigar shaped design. Mr. Twister designs have been copied by hundreds of generic companies and I doubt any has ever had to pay a penny in royalty fees. Personally I like the competition, and if I can offer a better product that's cheaper and custom made, my conscience is clear.

I would not copy anyones unique design on this site - I have 150 of my own and prefer to offer my art versus someone else's.

Sam

[GB GONE]

I have to agree with most points BUT consider this:

I you have ever bought any plastics from Walmart or another bait store and then compared them to a "copy" that was hand poured...there is no comparison!!!!!!!!

Bottom line is that a few of us would also like to make a couple bucks!!! Making a bait that is not exactly like a bait on the market but close is NOT stealing (because they are not patented or even patent pending!!) it is improving!!!

That is what makes things go around in this world AND makes things better!!! If you ever want to make some money, just re-package something already on the market in an easier to use form ie. tuna, crackers, mayo in a handy lunch pack, chips and dip together, etc.

Hmmm, I wonder why there are some amny types of "plastic" worms with so many different tails...shouldn't we just have one kind and everbody use that style???!!!

I'd guess that even the guys ruffling feathers want to make some $$$ or their baits would not be for sale.

I'd be glad to send anyone a sample of my baits to "compare" to a quote original and then let you be the judge. Until you fish them...you don't know the difference!!!

Jim

PS Nothing against the innovators of new and original things!!!! Most soft, hard and wire baits made on this site are "stolen" from ideas of other and ARE NOT original in to many ways!!!

[GB GONE]

The other issue with some "original" baits is that a lot of anglers cannot buy them due to the fact that stores & websites will NOT sell them due to their near XXX marketing techniques!!!

Ya, that is what I want my 4 year old son or daughter to see!!!

Again, I won't ever infringe on a patent knowingly but I will continue to strive to make a better product or a product better, unlike most original plastic bait makers!!! If they wanted to make a better product they would ditch the cheap plastic and make a quality, tear resistant bait!! Or call us and ask us hand pour dudes for some advice! !!

The issue that started this "conversation" would probably be taken in a different light IF it happened directly to U!!! I would love to borrow your swim bait picture Matt and then send out something like it (if I could even begin to make something that nice!!!). Problem is, now your bait suffers because I used its likeness but could't really come up with the same bait.

Jim

[rockhopper]

It's interesting you brought up mold making companies. According to Dave from Lure Craft' date=' anything that attempts to duplicate nature is unpatentable.

Far from the truht, now an exact copy of a naturel item can not be design patented, few, I mean very, very, few lures do this, they instead try to duplicate an action of a natural animal, to do this changes have to be made in the natural design, so the water, or bottom can make the lure move like the real thing, because lures don't have gfor the most part enternal mussels that control their actions

Pretty much all lures fall into this category. I suspect he's blowing smoke,

He is endeed,

but only know of the process and result of salt in plastic, that was patented by Gene Larew. Very few lures are patented.

I don't call over 2,500 patented lures very few, do you ?

Regarding copying, the plastic worm has been around a long time and redesigned by hundreds of companies. Some designs have been copied exactly, but given a different name. Others have minor changes, but are still straight lengths of plastic with a hook inserted. Just about every commercial product has been copied and then changed a wee bit to avoid patent infringement.

Yes and no,, some did require a small change, other's tried even big changes , yet were found to be infringing. It all depoends if a design patent or a utility patent was issued, htere have been a lot of infringment cases that were won , you jsut never heard about, many were settled out of court, many were licensed after paying hefty fines, you heard about the salt law suits because so many companines got burned on that one. I have been involved in a number of infringment cases on lures, I have been on both sides of the suits, acting as a data gather to help people win one way or another

Of course we sell copied or modified designs of others. A swim bait is still a Sassy Shad, except the jig head is molded in. If you didn't design the thumper tail and attach it to a slab body, you copied it and Storm's swimbaits. Personally I see lurecrafting as an art form and art cannot be patented.

What a person believes has nothing to do with the laws of the land

The US government see's it as inteleactual property, that is protected by patents, I wish you were right,, if it was an art, it would be protected by copyright laws, these laws can even land the infringer in jail, the goverment can and does go after these people, so the person who's art was stolen does not have to hire an attorney

When you come up with a super realistic color pattern (Matt's), you have created what some would consider a work of art. Some famous fly tiers have sold their fly's for hundreds and these will never hit the water, being collector's items.

Many of my laminate color schemes have never been made or sold, but I would be flattered if they were copied and sold, knowing I couldn't do a d**n thing about it and that my unique scheme may have already be originated by someone else - the same as most plastic designs here or elsewhere. A color scheme doesn't make it different.

How many of us have sent a royalty check to Larew after selling our salt impregnated soft plastic lures when his patent was still in effect? If the answer is no one, then none can take the high road.

I personaly know of many large makers of lures who did

Stik-O sounds a lot like Senko and is perfectly legal to use,

Where did you get your law degree, or what patent and trade mark lawyer told you this ?

as is the cigar shaped design. Mr. Twister designs have been copied by hundreds of generic companies and I doubt any has ever had to pay a penny in royalty fees.

You are incorrect in your asumtions,, many were sued, many lost, many paid, now of course the patent has expirered, everyone can make it

Personally I like the competition, and if I can offer a better product that's cheaper and custom made, my conscience is clear.

I would not copy anyones unique design on this site - I have 150 of my own and prefer to offer my art versus someone else's.

You should be the one who reaps the profits from your designs, not some guy with a lot of money that can produce them by the millions

Sam

[Mattlures]

Rodney I like you. You are a great adition to TU. If you think I need some type of protection please send me an email.

Thanks Matt

[GB GONE]

Rodney:

I appreciate your knowledge in this area!!!

How can LC, M-F manufacturing and other mold makers continue to infringe upon baits that have been patented??? I would think that if it was a big deal, they would have been sued a looong time ago!!!

I know many of their molds are one-sided but seems the bait is still a resonable copy...

Just curious!!! BTW, when I attended a Bassmaster U, Rich Tauber showed us your "stand out"...Outstanding....if you can parden the pun!!!

Jim

[rockhopper]

I have to agree with most points BUT consider this:

I you have ever bought any plastics from Walmart or another bait store and then compared them to a "copy" that was hand poured...there is no comparison!!!!!!!!

Bottom line is that a few of us would also like to make a couple bucks!!! Making a bait that is not exactly like a bait on the market but close is NOT stealing (because they are not patented or even patent pending!!) it is improving!!!

If the bait is patetned "quality" has nothing to do with the patent' date=', a patent holder never even has to ever make his invention. Quality does not get into patnet laws.

It is legal to copy any non patented lure (like the Sinko) or any patented lure who's patent has expired, either because of it's date running out or for the lack of paying patent maintance fees

That is what makes things go around in this world AND makes things better!!! If you ever want to make some money, just re-package something already on the market in an easier to use form ie. tuna, crackers, mayo in a handy lunch pack, chips and dip together, etc.

That depends, again on wheather the product is patented and if the patent holder is supplying you with the goods in bulk so you can do so

Hmmm, I wonder why there are some amny types of "plastic" worms with so many different tails...shouldn't we just have one kind and everbody use that style???!!!

I'd guess that even the guys ruffling feathers want to make some $$$ or their baits would not be for sale.

I'd be glad to send anyone a sample of my baits to "compare" to a quote original and then let you be the judge. Until you fish them...you don't know the difference!!!

I do take samples to use with my rigs , and I promote them when my rigs get the heavy PR they get :-)

Jim

PS Nothing against the innovators of new and original things!!!! Most soft, hard and wire baits made on this site are "stolen" from ideas of other and ARE NOT original in to many ways!!!

That,, we hope to change, you get much more out of using and selling something you came up with, than jsut copying somone elses product.

I deal strickly in inventing new products, it is how I make my living, it is what I get paid for

[rockhopper]

Rodney:

I appreciate your knowledge in this area!!!

How can LC' date=' M-F manufacturing and other mold makers continue to infringe upon baits that have been patented??? I would think that if it was a big deal, they would have been sued a looong time ago!!!

How do you know that cases are not pending,, many are , and , many stay that way for years, costing millions to both sides in legal fees. Others have already obtained a license to produce what they are making, these types of things are never published, you don't know who's paying who, what.

I know many of their molds are one-sided but seems the bait is still a resonable copy...

It all takes time, and money, this is the worst shark infest market there is in inventing, but most of the sharks get harponed in the end

Just curious!!! BTW, when I attended a Bassmaster U, Rich Tauber showed us your "stand out"...Outstanding....if you can parden the pun!!!

Yep it's the "Only" Outstanding hook on the market :-)

Thanks for the compliment, I wish they could make it as well as I can make them by hand though, the machines just can't do it, that hooks looks a lot different from mine, yet they are both falling under the same patent

That hook is also the best natural bait hook in the world, it always catches the fish in the top lip, and you just never miss one that hits. In deep sea fishing trials they never lost a single bait without catching the fish (these were 5/0 thru 9/0 hooks)

Jim

[GB GONE]

Rodney:

Can this be retro? Like, today I am selling a "copy" of someone's bait and then they patent it, can they go back in time when the "copy" was being produced or is it just tough luck!!!!

Also, how would you know if a bait is patented or protected? Some sites have it there but most don't list patent, trademark, etc.

Isn't there some responsibility on the seller to "proclaim" the patent on packaging???

Jim

[rockhopper]

Rodney:

Your saying "It is legal to copy any non patented lure (like the Sinko) or any patented lure who's patent has expired' date=' either because of it's date running out or for the lack of paying patent maintance fees."[/color']

Really!!! ??? Why are there processes to patent or copyright anything then??

You have to file for the process, a patent gives you the right to keep others from making, selling, or using your patent inventions for 20 years after the filing date (if you pay the maintance fees to the patent office)

If you do not file for a patent, then anyone one can make, sell, or use your invention.

Now copyrighting is a bit different, you can file for copyright protection, the fee is real small, (it was 35 dollars total) and you get some major benifits in filingbut you don't have to file for that protection , as all original "works' of art, writings and a few other things are automaticly copyrighted, you just have to prove the date the work was finnished, it's harder to prove that date without filing, but you still have copyright protection, you must hire your own lawyer to pursue the infinger,, you might want to do this anyway.

You can't copyright a lure though, it must be patented for protection

I'm so confused!!!

Don't fell bad, 95% of the people out there don't understand any of this, most have just "heard" this, or that, and most of what they have heard is myths, and not fact

It took me years to learn all this

[Senkosam]

because lures don't have gfor the most part enternal mussels that control their actions

Please interpret.

I don't call over 2,500 patented lures very few, do you ?

Where did you get this number? How many of these were for soft plastic lures?

Yes and no,, some did require a small change, other's tried even big changes , yet were found to be infringing.

A few examples please.

The US government see's it as inteleactual property, that is protected by patents, I wish you were right,, if it was an art, it would be protected by copyright laws, these laws can even land the infringer in jail, the goverment can and does go after these people, so the person who's art was stolen does not have to hire an attorney

A lure doesn't fall into either category - intellectual property or into a copyright category. My reference to lurecrafting as an art form and our lures as art, many times differentiates it from mass produced products. A person who custom paints crankbaits, whether he made the crankbait or not, has artistic talent and the product cannot be patented. If someone improves or slightly modifies the Sweet Beaver design, at this point he cannot be sued for infringement, though a member on this site was warned by the company that they could sue him.

Where did you get your law degree, or what patent and trade mark lawyer told you this ?

Not required to know that the Stik-O is sold by the thousands under that name and this is the fourth year. There are many similar cigar shaped worms that have the letter O after the name and the packages have no licensing number.

Out of curiousity, what law school did you graduate from and what type of law did you study?

If a patent has expired, then many of the companies making copies aren't infringing and therefore anyone can make them. Many soft plastic lure companies have been duplicating Mr Twister worms and grubs by the millions for years and are still going strong.

You should be the one who reaps the profits from your designs, not some guy with a lot of money that can produce them by the millions

Ethically speaking, yes. Realistically speaking, doesn't happen unless you have the time and money to sue after having spent the time and money to get the patent and copyright protection for your creation.

How many on this site have done so. If not, they have no room to bitch and that is the harsh reality of the corporate world, like it or not.

[rockhopper]

Rodney:

Can this be retro? Like' date=' today I am selling a "copy" of someone's bait and then they patent it, can they go back in time when the "copy" was being produced or is it just tough luck!!!!

The only have 1 year from the first day they disclosed, or offered for sell the bait to file for a patent, once they have filed , they can elect to tell you they have filed (if they know your copying them), at this point, only if their patent issues, they can collect triple damages. if they don't know you are copying them, and they don't inform you it is patent pending, then their damages start the day of the patent's issue, they could wait a number of years before filing a claim against you, their damages back up to the issue date of the patent, even if you didn't know one had issued, even if you didn't know until you get that invitation to court, they still back up on you. The best thing to do is to try to settle with them fast, or the lawyers will kill you. The last infringment case I was involved with was a person was acused of infringement, this person was an ex partner of the patent holder, and he knew where all the bones were buried, he knew he could get the patent nulified, so he fought, and won, it cost him 2.8 million dollars in legal fees and yet he was the winner.

Also, how would you know if a bait is patented or protected? Some sites have it there but most don't list patent, trademark, etc.

sneaky, are they not :-) you have some patent holders that only want to sue infringers, they are not required by law to put the patent number on their product, or that they are patented, they want to get as much money as posible from infringers. I don't like that part of the law, but it is there, it needs to be changed, but it hasn't been.

If your in the lure busniess, or any busniess it's your responcibilty to keep up with the patent issued in you market.

Isn't there some responsibility on the seller to "proclaim" the patent on packaging???

NONE what so ever. You must also know that most patented products are not even on the market, the patent holder does not have to put them there, his patent gives him the right to keep others from making selling and using, and sueing those who do so without his permission

Jim

[rockhopper]

because lures don't have gfor the most part enternal mussels that control their actions

Please interpret.

Sorry, if you have not guessed yet I'm dyslexic, (comes as a side effect of a high IQ) and this program has no spell checker

Let me refraise it,, design changes are nessasary from nature, to get the action natural prey animals have, as lures are not "living" moving under their means own means of locamotion, so lure designs do not copy natural shaped live animals for the most part,, as the action must be generated by reeling them in

I don't call over 2,500 patented lures very few, do you ?

Where did you get this number? How many of these were for soft plastic lures?

From the US patent office, I do professional patent searches, there are close to that number that just have the title "Fishing Lure", many lures don't use this in their titles, they use thing likes fishing aperatous, or a means of catching fish. or artifishal bait, or just bait, or just lure

Yes and no,, some did require a small change, other's tried even big changes , yet were found to be infringing.

A few examples please.

I'm not going to start looking up case law, at least not for free, that gets into costing me some major time, and time is money. there are plenty patent attorneys that will do this for you, at from 100 to 500 dollars an hour

The US government see's it as inteleactual property, that is protected by patents, I wish you were right,, if it was an art, it would be protected by copyright laws, these laws can even land the infringer in jail, the goverment can and does go after these people, so the person who's art was stolen does not have to hire an attorney

A lure doesn't fall into either category - intellectual property or into a copyright category. My reference to lurecrafting as an art form and our lures as art, many times differentiates it from mass produced products.

but you are very mistaken on IP, if they were not IP the patent office would not issue patents on them, people would not get sued over them, and I don't care what "book" your reading from, you need to study patents

There has been NO RULING FROM THE BENCH that lures do not fall into either catogory,, here I want you to give me the case number. perhaps you can on paint jobs

If your lures were indeed "ART" then they are protected by copyright laws, and I'm sure many, one of a kind fly's and paint jobs on hard baits are "art" and should/could have copyrights filed on them. That is up to the original designer to file for and enforce.

There has been NO RULING FROM THE BENCH that lures do not fall into either catogory, at least I know of none, and the last soft plastic lure patent was issued this month,, here I want you to give me the case number. surely it is in that book

A person who custom paints crankbaits, whether he made the crankbait or not, has artistic talent and the product cannot be patented. If someone improves or slightly modifies the Sweet Beaver design, at this point he cannot be sued for infringement, though a member on this site was warned by the company that they could sue him.

I would bet they could for copyright infringment

Where did you get your law degree, or what patent and trade mark lawyer told you this ?

Not required to know that the Stik-O is sold by the thousands under that name and this is the fourth year. There are many similar cigar shaped worms that have the letter O after the name and the packages have no licensing number.

Gary normaly does not sue,, this does not mean he can't, or even won't

Out of curiousity, what law school did you graduate from and what type of law did you study?

If you had read my first post you would know my back ground, IP in the fishing industry is my buisness, I have been inventing for over 30 years, I have been an independant for a little over 6 now. I've had to learn these laws to servive this industry

If a patent has expired, then many of the companies making copies aren't infringing and therefore anyone can make them. Many soft plastic lure companies have been duplicating Mr Twister worms and grubs by the millions for years and are still going strong.

This is true, a patent is not forever

You should be the one who reaps the profits from your designs, not some guy with a lot of money that can produce them by the millions

Ethically speaking, yes. Realistically speaking, doesn't happen unless you have the time and money to sue after having spent the time and money to get the patent and copyright protection for your creation.

How many on this site have done so. If not, they have no room to bitch.

What we are talking now, is people infringing on active patents of others not in this group

[basskat]

I may be wrong but it's not against the law to copy anyone's bait, machine, part, etc...... it's against the law to sell it. As long as it's used for your personal use it's not infringing on any copyrights or panents. So the guys who make molds are not guilty of anything, we are if we sell them.

[rockhopper]

I may be wrong but it's not against the law to copy anyone's bait' date=' machine, part, etc...... it's against the law to sell it. As long as it's used for your personal use it's not infringing on any copyrights or panents.

The problem is,, you are wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From the US patent office

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#patent

The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, ?the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling? the invention in the United States or ?importing? the invention into the United States. What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention

"using" only one person at a time uses soemthing, so anyone personaly "using" a copy of a patented product is infringing

So the guys who make molds are not guilty of anything, we are if we sell them.

The court disagrees completly, their molds "enable" people to infringe, if it a copy of the patented item comes out of that mold, and that mold or mold cavity is only made , to make an infringing product, then they (the mold makers) are infringing on that product

[rockhopper]

I may be wrong but it's not against the law to copy anyone's bait' date=' machine, part, etc...... it's against the law to sell it. As long as it's used for your personal use it's not infringing on any copyrights or panents.

The problem is,, you are wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From the US patent office

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#patent

The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, ?the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling? the invention in the United States or ?importing? the invention into the United States. What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention

"using" only one person at a time uses soemthing, so anyone personaly "using" a copy of a patented product is infringing

So the guys who make molds are not guilty of anything, we are if we sell them.

The court disagrees completly, their molds "enable" people to infringe, if it a copy of the patented item comes out of that mold, and that mold or mold cavity is only made , to make an infringing product, then they (the mold makers) are infringing on that product

Let me take this one step further, let's say you've invented a lure and the patent shows it has three parts put together,, no one else could sell the parts seperatly with instructions on how to make your patent lure, or the court could not "figure" it out that how the three are put together from the parts to infringe.

I have that problem with one of my weights, I could put directions in my weight's package to show people how to bend it and make it even better, but the bending of any weight this way infringes on another's single claim in their patent. This would make my weight better,, but it is still better than the weight that has this single claim, along with it's others.

Although my weight is different than the other one, me infringing on just "one" of it's claims or telling others to do so, would land me in court, and I would loose.