Deep Crankin

[OUTDOORSMAN]

I'm trying to figure out how to get a crankbait deeper then what it was made to go. 18+ feet. They make so few that can do that. Or getting a shallower running crankbait deep. I was curious if anybody tries anything like that ? I have been messing around with rigging a crankbait like a c-rig, with a light weight, it works pretty good.

[Skeeter]

I can probably help you with this one if it is a wooden crankbait. First I need to know what kind and brand of crankbait, and how deep you want it to go. Also I would like to know if you want the bait to keep the same action that it currently has or if you want to modify it. Most modifications can be made fairly easily.

Skeeter

[OUTDOORSMAN]

The lake that I fish alot is gin clear, so I usually use a wooden crank bait. But sometimes use whatever I have to go deep. I would like to try and get something to around 20' and deeper to dig the bottom. I'm kind of going on a hunch. I open to about any suggestions. I want to try something that the bass have never seen. I've heard some guys drill holes in there plastic crankbaits to get then deeper, not sure how that works though.

[Skeeter]

Getting down to 20 ft. is not a problem. Weighting plastic cranks for that kind of depth is a waste of time. Most of them just aren't made for weighting or that kind of depth. If you are wanting 20 ft. from a plastic crank, then my suggestion would be a Norman DD22 or a 20+ by Manns. Fish them on 8 to 10 lb line. Normans deep little N will get to 16ft. on 8 lb line. For wooden cranks, cut the lip out and put it comming straight out from the nose. This will add the depth you are looking for as long as the bait is perfectly ballanced and tuned. Weighting a crank serves only one purpose, to change the diving angle of the plug. The steeper the diving angle the faster the bait will reach maximum depth. You will not obtain greater depth by just adding weight unless you are only looking for an extra 6 inches of depth. Take my word for it, weighting won't get it regardless of what anyone tells you. Pro or not. Good equipment will surely help. Long casts are necessary to reach those depths.

Skeeter

[Attitude]

Guys,

Most of the cranks that "say" they run to a certain depth, don't. According to a recent article in In-Fisherman, "It was found that many manufacturers have over-rated the diving abilities of their baits. Only seven lures (of 140 popular cranks) drove past 17ft. on a 100 foot cast with 10 pound mono." The Mann's 30+ only got to 21.5 feet....casting a serious question mark over the Mann's cranks...for me anyway. Good baits and all, just don't run to the depth that they are supposed too. Here I am thinkin I'm getting down to the cabbage at 20 feet with the Mann's 20+, when in reality it's probably at about 15 or 16 ft. Apparently the deepest crank was the Luhr Jensen's 3/4 oz. Hot Lips Express at 22 feet.

[Skeeter]

Attitude,

You are correct with this deep diving crank thing. However, if you will notice, most of these plugs are plastic. My feeling is that hollow plastic cranks are just too bouyant. It is like trying to crank a bobber down to 20ft. The lips on these plugs look like frying pans. In my opinion wooden crankbaits can be made to reach that mark easier. I can make one modification to a DB III and it will consistantly hit 19ft. easy on 12lb. line.

A good custom crankbait maker can make a lure that will hit the 20ft. mark with ease. I have two lures right now that will hit 24ft. consistantly. The lip is 1/2 the size of a 30+. In fact the lip is smaller than a DB III. These baits are perfectly designed, ballanced and tuned. The problem is that when folks see the $20.00 price tag, they grab their chest. Your equipment has to be able to deliver also. I have seen folks that claim they are making a 100 ft. cast, but really aren't. Distance in the cast is a definite factor. But I am sure that Al definitely knows what he is doing.

Skeeter

[Mylures]

I totally agree with Skeeter, a handmade plug is definetly the only way to go as far as balance and accuracy. The only thing that most people don't understand is the time and talent put into each and every lure. Its not just some shoddy piece of plastic, machine made and painted and they don't work like they say. People look at the lure, really like it but they don't like the price. They want top shelf for a couple bucks. I had a guy look at some of my baits a couple of weeks ago. Fisrt off, he thought they were made from plastic and then he says how the hell do you paint them like that. I'll give you $2.00 apiece for them. He didn't almost have a heart attack, I almost did. When I told him $20.00 he just snorted and ran like a spooked buck. Oh well, thats life and I guess I just have more plugs to fish with than what I have time. I won't give them away. As usual, Skeeter is right on the money.

Ken

[Attitude]

Yeah, I hear ya guys.

I really thinks it's stupid how Mann's has their 20 and 30+ baits that don't even hit the desired depth. And your right, to hit a 100 ft. cast isn't something that everybody can get. I guess I'm just saying that Mann's baits should do what they are advertised to do. I also like the DT's by Rapala, but I'm yet to find out if they are hitting the depth yet. Do you guys have any experience with them?

[SeminoleFan]

Attitude,

I also like the DT 10 From Rapala. Although, I can only get them to 10 ' on the DT 10 on 8 lb line. The DT16 I can consistently get around 16 ' with 10 lb line. I really dont know what the difference is in them. Then again, each mass produced crank has a personality of its own.

Rick

SeminoleFan

[Skeeter]

I guess most baits have personalities of their own. Hand made cranks included. The DT series of baits I have not played with yet. However, there are certain things that I feel must exist for a bait to reach optimum performance. First, the body must be straight. Second, everything has to line up. If you take a bait and turn it upside down, the hookhangers and the shaft to the line tie should all be in a straight line. Also the weight needs to be centered on the belly. Not off to the right or left. The lip needs to be straight and square to the body. Many wooden baits are awful at this. If you hold the bait with the lip pointed toward the ceiling you will see that alot of times the lip is off to one side or the other. If you look at the bait from the front then you will see lips that tilt and are not square to the horizontal plane. Also alot of times bodies will be more round on one side or thicker than the other. All of this has an effect on the bait reaching maximum depth. You would not enter an archery tournament with crooked arrows. Therefore, you should try not to buy crankbaits that are crooked. This is really hard to do when they are packaged. If the bait is all crooked and misaligned, then fix it the best you can. Finally the bait needs to be tuned as tight as possible. We all know if the bait runs right then move the eye of the line tie to the left and visa versa. But one thing that has become practice for some is to twist the line tie instead of bending the whole thing right or left. If you twist the line tie then the bait will run at a slant. It is alot like riding behing a car that has the frame bent. The back end is over to one side. The car looks crooked even though it is running straight. Geeeeez I hope this makes sense. The line tie should be in line with the body and the whole thing should be moved right or left. If you tune the bait where it will run perfectly straight, then the bait will go back under the boat on the retrieve. When this happens then you will pretty much have it dialed in. The depth that the bait will obtain after this is about all you can get out of it. Hope this makes sense.

Skeeter

[Fishinrev]

I use crankbaits down to 50 feet on Lake Washington for smallmouth all winter long, not by modifying the bait, but attaching the crank to a three way rig. The idea is as old as the hills, but most guys have forgotten about it since most bass tourniments won't allow slow trolling. But for the guy who enjoys fishing just for himself and likes to experiment, it works great!

Basically, the line from the rod is tied to a three way swivel. One of the other swivel tie-ons is used to add a weight on a 18-24 inch leader. (Use a line a couple of pounds lighter than the main line so that if the weight snags you only loose the weight.) The other line tied on the swivel goes to the crank - also a 18-24 inch leader. My favorite and most successful crank is a shallow runner - the Rapala jointed minnow. But I've caught dozens of bass on numerous other cranks in the tackle box. (It's an absolutely deadly rig for mega perch in the fall, using a tiny crank.)

Find a flat, turn your electric trolling motor on 4-5 (I find the faster speeds don't give the fish too much time to think about it, and you will get reaction strikes - though everyonce in a while the slower the better, even dragging the bait works). Use scent! Any bass fisherman who is patient enough to drag dropshot rigs can also drag this crank rig. Don't be afraid to use large weights to get down to those winter depths - I've used as large as 3 oz, to cover flats in 50 feet of water during the winter. (I try to keep the weight 6 inches to a foot above the bottom. Believe me - my underwater camera has shown me that any smallmouth in the area will come tp check it out.) And remember, if it's following your bait, dropping the rig back occassionally will cause the crank to suddenly appear in it's face, and often get a reaction bite.

But this technique also works great in summer when the larger fish move back out after the spawn into the summer and fall in deeper lakes. Believe me, it works just great in 20-30 feet of water. My local bass club doesn't have the "no trolling" clause and I've used it very effectively on those hot summer days when everything in the shallows closes down. The larger fish in deeper water doesn't seem to be as affected by fronts coming through.

Believe me - it works! It isn't as exciting for the type A fisherman who needs to be casting every 5 seconds, but it is one more tool to add to your arsenal. The bait is always in the water, at the right depth, and nothing covers a flat quicker! I could go on and on about this technique, but the fact is - it's easier to attach the crank of your choice to a deep three way rig than modify cranks to go deeper. Well, that's one opinion anyway.

[RiverMan]

Great idea Fishinrev and one that I hadn't thought about in some time.

Here in Oregon I spend most of the winter fishing for steelhead in the Columbia River. The lure we reach for when wanting to "go deep" is the "HOT LIPS" in the 1/2, 3/4, or 1oz versions. The baits look quite large because of the huge clear lip but I suspect the fish focus on the body of the bait which is of normal porportions. I'm sure if you were to use a 3/4oz version on 8 or 10 pound line you would exceed the 20' mark. Good luck!

Jed

[boatnik13]

OUTDOORSMAN! make sure you have fish at this level befor you go dragging the depths. I don't know the water your fishing but i do know the water doesn't have to hold fish at the depth. I don't fish beyond 15ft depth because i already know the lakes I fish are only 40ft.depth and the D.O reports and tests show fish spend lil time below the 12ftdepth in the lakes I fish. Using a depthfinder to chase the thermocline seems to work if ther is a thermocline at the time.Otherwise I find the fish in structure above the T.C. with my aqua-vu. As someone said > the underwater camera's show them fish. I agree with the 3 way and using weight to get the depth but not by adding to the lure weight or big lip.The 3 way swivel is like a inexpensive down rigger. I use yellow pine made lures for deep water.(heavy/inexpensive)

[lurecollector]

My all time favorite style of fishing is deepcranking. The deeper the better. All day - chunking and winding. Wear out some reels and forearms. But as we all know about 20 ft is about it for a floating bait.

At various times in the past I tried Bagley Dredges (sinking lipped plug),

a few others and lipless cranks. Never found any I really liked that worked well down deep (20+). Thats when I finally decided to make one. Most of my deep fish are at 15 to 25 feet plus. The lipless balsa lure - ProBalsa Shad - is heavy - up to 2 ounces. Will outthrow any lipped bait by far and thump hard. It'll also stay in the strike zone longer easier. Various colors, shapes, sizes and riggings. These tools have opened up a whole new world . . . Now no fish is too deep to reach easily and effectively.

[Soupysayso]

A trick that I read from Homer's circle of bassmaster magazine was to add a bullet weight much like you would for fishing a worm, unpegged of course! I realize that it seems weird but you'd be surprised what kind of different actions you can get out of crankbaits. I've tried it myself on my home lake, and it seems legit. I don't have enough confidence to go around doing it all day, BUT it enables one to flutter their crankbaits near vertical and doesn't take away from the action of the crankbait as much as you or I would think. I was actually surprised. Also, there is the option of shaving the front lip, another tip from bassmaster taken from Pro Tim Horton. I've also tried this tip and I have to say that it gives some unique actions depending upon the lip shaving modifications you make. If you shave down the front edge of your lips you might be able to squeeze out 6"-12" of extra diving depth, possibly more depending upon the type of lip on your crankbaits (might want to play with lip shaving on some throwaway baits first to get the hang of what modifications do to your diving attitude). And last, one more modification I haven't played with but is viable is to take a soldering tool and melt heat up your lip so that you can bend it more parallel with your bait, that will also give you a few extra inches possibly feet on your depth. Line is ALWAYS a consideration, and switching from mono to a smaller diameter superline or fluorocarbon might also give you some extra depth. Those are about the only modifications I can think of aside from simply drilling them out and adding shot, which will take away from the action.

[Soupysayso]

I lied, I thought of two other things you might want to try. I've seen guys throwing keel weights in front of their crankbaits to get extra depth around here. Cabela's and basspro both offer fancy minnow looking ones but they are also easy to make and customize. You'd tie them on similar to carolina rigging. Carolina rigging shallow running crankbaits is also done on my home lake, but it's a hit or miss proposition...if you have fish stacked one on top of another and they're active you have a higher percentage of catching them; this is not a search and destroy technique by any means. As for bass not living in deep water, that's a BIG myth. My home lake has depths to near 200 feet. Oxygen tests show that the oxygen levels are the same at 0ft as they are at 100ft. at certain times of year (distinct thermoclines in the summer). Get yourself a depthfinder that puts out the most watts....something like a lowrance x-97 or similar with 3000 watts of power which will show you a distinct thermocline. I don't know your given situation so I can't be more specific. This all being said, without the presence of bait, you're probably talking about inactive fish (figure out what the typical depth a fish is caught in your home lake and then cover as much water as you can at that depth). Color is not even a consideration beyond 40ft even in a super clear lake. Based on what I've seen and heard about from aqua-vu observations the fish here move up or down as much as 20 feet dependent upon fishing pressure, nothing else. Doug Hannon, the "bass professor", conducted a study awhile back about a lake that they closed for 3 years to study the effects of fishing pressure. Jet-skis and other boat traffic were allowed during the 3 year suspension of fishing, in order to keep all factors equal. He discovered that the fish moved up shallow with lack of fishing pressure; within 2 days of opening the lake back up to fishing, he discovered the fish moved on average 10 feet deeper. He concluded that fishing pressure was the single biggest factor in moving a fish deeper that could normally be found much shallower, with all factors such as bait, weather, and oxygen conditions being equal. Gives you something to think about doesn't it? I wish I had that study handy but I don't, I'll try to locate the source. Honestly, you'd be better off mastering spoon jigging or tailspinners rather than messing around with crankbaits at depths beyond 30ft. It's definitely not as glamorous but could prove more effective and consistent. If you have deep standing timber or other structure such as is found on Raystown lake in PA, you should be able to find treetops that top out around 60ft that comes out of 100ft of water, as an example; prime places to pick off fish consistently. The guys who mastered deep water tactics such as these can stay on the fish and win consistently here because weather, pressure, etc, have little or no impact. The guys who fish the 0-40ft range are very inconsistent. I know one guy who won every single local tournament for an entire year held at Raystown by fishing spoon jigs and tailspinners. Of course, he won't reveal his locations and exact techniques, but you see the typical depth of the winning catch was 40-60ft or deeper. If you buy into the notion that fishing pressure is the most influential factor in moving a fish deeper, then running a crankbait by their nose isn't going to help you much. You're only spending a fraction of your cast in the "strike zone" and you're not showing them anything different than what pushed them deep to begin with. I can counter all of this based on an experience I've had while fishing a major tournament at Lake Kerr, NC. Upon arriving, I discovered the fish were not in the bushes as is typically the case at that lake. The lake dropped more than 10 feet and watertemps -10 degrees in one week on top of serious fishing pressure. Shallow water is where nearly all the bass are caught, no deeper than 20ft. I spent 3 out of 5 days fishing extreme depths and having some success but it was slow. Turns out, the winning anglers just covered as much water as they could and located areas that were more active than others in the depths that fish are typically caught. They used spinnerbaits and typical crankbaits and kept chucking and winding. Some lakes just won't produce for you deep unless you have weeks to invest, sometimes years! Each lake is different and has a typical "catch depth". I'm rambling here but you get the point. I've been in the same boat as you most likely; this is one of the things that has brought me to such a forum. Hope this stirs your brain.