finlander Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Looks like it works great, but how would it work on a larger, forked tail. I just want to make 5 or 6 to attach to a wood trolling bait. Only have a few days off before the trip, so not much time. I want to melt down some plastics I already have. Just how TOXIC is the smell/fumes??? Not looking for quality, just something to replace the big wooden tail on this muskie look-a-like bait, 20" long. Thanks, the Finn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 I would recomend working with the plastics in a well ventalated area. Using a microwave is better than using a burner/stove. If you are only going to pour 5-6 baits, the silicone mold would do well for that. And wont take you verry long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 For you particular need & time limitations, Id recommend you use the original soft plastic tail & mold it in plaster. since you need it quick & the look isnt of importance, id give that a go, its easier, quicker & you wont need a rigid (clay, etc) prototype made up. take your tail & affix it in a container of some sort, make sure the forked tail is flat in the container & pour in enough plaster to cover it up, + at least another 1/4 inch more. Make sure you pour slowly & in the lowest part of the container. let the plaster "seek" it way around the tail. After pouring, gently tap the container on a flat level surface to bring up any air bubbles, & let dry. take the advise on the microwave & ventilation, pour, attach, fish & enjoy. Try the silicone tutorial when you have the time to devote to it, its pretty thick stuff & takes a lil practice. Good luck on your trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Jerry- the lure is wood, and the tail is wood. I have not cut it off yet. I want to replace it with a plastic one. I bought some plaster today. Can I use the tail of the lure in a mold bbbefore I cut it off, so I still have a whole lure in case this backfires??? :oops: I have 2 aluminum tins maybe 3 inches deep. Can I fill these with the plaster and then push the tail down into the stuff?? The tail can be flat on both sides, I don't care. Smooth not textured. How will the wood tail release from the plaster?? Thanks, the Finn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Oh, Maybe silicone would be better, since the tail is rigid. If you wanna save the original bait (arent you still gonna cut the tail off?) Heres an idea: 1 Use a paper or plastic disposable cup. 2 add enough 100% silicone in it to submerge the tail. 3 add a few drops of water, mix well (avoid air bubbles) 4 use a spatula or putty knife to skim the top smooth. 5 add a lil soapy water to your tail & slowly dip it in the silicone 6 let it dry an hour or 2. 7 Take a razor blade & cut down one side of the cured silicone (remove or cut away the cup first if possible) Dont cut all the way to the bottom, stop every once in awhile & try to remove the bait, if it wont come, cut a lil more. 8 once its out, pour your plastic into the top. As to attaching it to the bait, I'm lost there bud, youll get help here, im sure. Pic attached below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Yes, I will remove the wood tail if things go well. The wooden tail is about 4" high. What other container can you suggest?? Coffee can would be tough to cut away later How about the bottom of a two litre pop bottle? I won't be ordering any plastisol now, I want to melt down plastics I have. How bad are the smells?? I have two parrots. Is this something to be done outdoors?? And, will problems arise when melting different items, i.e. plastics from different mfgrs??? How many pours will a silicon mold take before 'deforming'? Anyone know the temperature of liquid plastic? Sorry for all the q's, still learning..... thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsac Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 I don't know if anybody else really caught this or not, but his bait is 20" long! This is a big 'ol bait. I won't be ordering any plastisol now, I want to melt down plastics I have. You are going to need a lot of plastics to remelt! I'm assuming that if it's 4" tall, it's at least a half inch thick as well. How bad are the smells?? I have two parrots. Is this something to be done outdoors?? Since you're melting down different plastics, I would recommend doing in the garage or outside. It might affect the birds. How many pours will a silicon mold take before 'deforming'? You shouldn't have any problems there. Anyone know the temperature of liquid plastic? It's going to somewhere around 350*F. Don't apologize about all the questions. That's how we all learned. Well except for all those costly "I'll try it on my own" experiments. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Thanks Jake!!!! What about the use of a plastic pop bottle for a silicon 'frame'??? Last spring at the lodge in Ontario a man was reeling in a 5 pound pike when a muskie came up and swallowed it. the 'ski was est. at 65 pounds and was at least 72" long. When I looked at my lure today and tried to put a pike in its' place, the weight would not be 5 pounds, maybe three. I made a pike shaped lure that is 16 inches but narrow. A perch crank that is 13 inches. My 8 inch baits I may leave at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsac Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 I think a plastic pop bottle would work fine. You just have to make sure you have enough silicone to fill it up. Maybe you could find a cup at a local store that you would get a fountain drink in. The kind you put a lid on and a straw in? That would be tall enough, and still skinny enough to save on some silicone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Yup I think I can. Now to find an inexpensive microwave. Saw one at Wallymart for $30 yesterday, but it probably didn't have any power adjustments on it, just a timer with full power. You get what u pay for. Hey Jake, check out this site for some great largemouth lures...huddlestondeluxe.com Good for the next world record. Thanks, the Finn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 I don't know if anybody else really caught this or not' date=' but his bait is [b']20"[/b] long! This is a big 'ol bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 21 inches actually. Bought 3 tubes of silicon today, put them in cup, added the h2o, soaped the tail and pushed it into the silicon.....not the wait begins.....will air bubbles push their way up and out of the stuff since I was stirring the stuff when I added the water??? Or can I fill in any big voids I may find with silicon??? the wait begins....I think I killed my nose this am....not much wind outside... Yes, 21 inches and I have not put the diving lip on yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthworm77 Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 I've been pouring for several years. That was a great tutorial as I was looking for a replacement to the standard RTV compound that costs so much. I'm going to try this. Do you think there is a way to mold the baits without cutting them out? I was thinking of affixing several baits to a piece that you could place on top of the mold. Now these finished baits would have a flat side like traditional one piece molded hand poured baits. Perhaps super gluing them to a "roof" piece and then placing the roof on top of the mold and holding it in place with weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 will air bubbles push their way up and out of the stuff since I was stirring the stuff when I added the water??? Or can I fill in any big voids I may find with silicon??? Nope the air will remain where they are, you gotta stir slowly & deliberately. Or can I fill in any big voids I may find with silicon??? Yup, you can patch any voids in the mold with more silicone. Earthworm77 For what your wantin to do, your own idea is the way to go. This stuff is great for quick molds & prototyping, but if you want good silicone molds, RTV is tops. The regular silicone is really thick & hard to manipulate. I wish there was a way to get the tube silicone to a "putty" like consistency that you could handle with your hands, that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drop Shot Store Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 "Or can I fill in any big voids I may find with silicon???" I think I can use this at my next club meeting. There are definately some voids that need to be filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted July 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Ok. Checked the mold before I left for work. At the top of the cup, the silicon had firmed up nicely. So I tried to cut away the cup....and found raw silicon at the bottom of the cup. I di not know what to do with it. I left it alone til I came home. Then I removed the rest of the cup...still raw, hadn't cured. With a paint stick a put some on some areas of the 'mold' where it was thin, where part of the lures tail was close to the edge. Will this stuff cure without water?? What might I find when it comes time to cut out the lure?? Will it be uncured inside??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Heres what Id do, take off the cup & remove the excess (uncured) silicone from whats already cured. (For pouring) you might have to use something to stand it upright, since the bottom didnt cure fully. is the silicone cured around the surface of the tail? if so about how thick is the cured silicone? you only really need about an inch to support the shape, maybe less. if its not cured around the tail, remove the wet silicone from the tail leaving about a quarter inch of wet silicone around it (the tail), the silicone will cure without water at a thicness of 1/4" or less..........after it cures, you can add more silicone (incrementally) until you get an inch of silicone around the tail. can you submit pics? that would help a bunch, if the tail tapers enough, you might be able to pull the tail out, without cutting the mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted July 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 The tail is still on the lure, I did not bandsaw it off..yet. It narrows severely so I think I would split the mold if I tried removing it w/o cutting it wiith a blade. I spread the uncured ovwer the area where the tail touched the side of the cup. I could not feel that as I pushed it into the silicon. I put a clamp on the cup to elongate to match the shape of the tail. I added some silicon to those thin areas, and then misted it with water. I don't know if it will set by the am. I spent 9 bucks on these 3 tubes of pure silicon. Hope I don't need more. So, next time I could just layer the silicon in thin stages over my pattern, right? And, why didn't the stuff cure at the bottom of the cup?? Should I have mixed the stuff OUTSIDE the cup and then put it in?? I didn't know what timeframe I had before this stuff started to set up. This was my first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted July 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I pulled the wood tail out of the silicon today. I had to slice the mold down one side though. Afterward I thought how I should have opened the fork end of the mold, and pulled it out that way. Oh well. Looks cured inside. Yup, just checked it, it's dry. There are some rough areas but no craters to fill in. ....so, when you melt down plastic baits, is there a way to estimate how much one needs to melt to fill the mold?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthworm77 Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Red, the lego idea is a stroke of genious. The prefect way to avoid wasting mold material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 ....so, when you melt down plastic baits, is there a way to estimate how much one needs to melt to fill the mold?? Since you had to cut the mold take a few rubber bands & wrap lightly around the mold & fill the cavity with water. Use the water as a rough estimate of how much plastic you'll need. melt extra, you can probably remelt it a few times. So, next time I could just layer the silicon in thin stages over my pattern, right? And, why didn't the stuff cure at the bottom of the cup?? You can do that, I dont because its more time consuming & like I said earlier, its hard to manipulate because its so thick. Its just easier to dip it in. I'm not sure why all the silicone didnt cure, it could be many things, not enough water, not mixed well enough, or maybe just too darn much silicone I'm learning along with everyone else, I appreciate you posting your results. Thanks! Red' date=' the lego idea is a stroke of genious. The prefect way to avoid wasting mold material.Yeah my kids dont like it though, they miss thier legos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrav Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Didn't know where to put this, but since you already got the monster poured, I suppose it won't derail anything to yap more here about silicone in general. One thing I found to be of some utility when constructing multi-bait molds is to peg the blanks to a board and mold the silicone around them. Simply clipped off the heads of several small finishing nails and plier screwed them into the blanks. Twisted enough to make the holes a removable, but secure fit to the nail. Same with the board. Ended up with about 1/8-1/4 inch of clearance from the base board. Gotta work quick and be thorough in getting the silicone under the blanks, but it's very doable after a bit of experience. This makes a nice flat top mold and if the edges are contoured right while constructing, the clam opens up just by pushing on the edges. Essentially, building the mold in reverse fashion to acheive a slightly convex base. This can also be done more tutorial style by mixing/molding the silicone in a concave, just be sure to leave a little flat center for mold stabilty. Might just have to pour a large, plaster thing for this myself. Haven't tried this method of mixing the water and silicone, but it might be possible to spray the silicone and then just gather. IOW, lay a relatively flat cicle of bead out on a surface and then mist with water from a sprayer (like the Windex kind) and then mix/gather into a lump. The water would hit more of the surface area intially and might allow for less mixing and resultant air pockets in mold. Might be wise to measure the water that comes out in a few sprays, but I don't know if the exact ratio makes much difference. This may also give more working time with the silly if it speeds up the initial mixing process. Not much, but any is worth it in my case. Forgive the sketchiness of my memory, but there is a guy who uses silicone for fly tying (Bob Popovics?) and does mix it with a certain type of chemical for different consistency. Some type of photo shop stuff, I want to say "photoFlow" or something to that nature. Not sure of the actual effects of this on the silicone itself or the curing, I assume it makes it a bit easier to work with while smoothing it into wool head streamers. I try to find the article in my highly organized library of fishing related literature...or that disheveled pile of magazines as she calls it:). It may be a long search, but worth a shot. Perhaps Gr8flyz or other tyers know a bit on this one? jrav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
