RiverMan Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 I have been experimenting some with topwater baits. Does anyone have experience weighting big topwaters? I'm concerned that once the bait swims the clear coat will sink it!! lol Jed V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civicdx Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 you should be fine be fine i dont think it will sink i make big pencil poppers no weight there 2.8oz of basswood the with clear coat BIG hooks there around 4oz and work perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted August 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Well I have a bait that's running perfect now but have no idea what it's going to do with clear coat. I am thinking that some careful weight measurements before and after clear coating will give me an idea of what to expect. jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted August 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Does anyone on the board have a feel for whether or not lead weight in a bait will cause it to sink the same as an equal amount of clear coat weight? If so it would make the business of determining how my baits will sink once clear-coated a whole bunch easier. Thx. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaPala Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 NO JED!!! You forgot Archimedes, weight does not determine bouyancy, it's density of the medium. I'd expect the same weight of clear coat to be of a bigger volume compared to lead. SO there will be a slight difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted August 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Good point LaPala! The bait with the clearcoat will be larger thus displacing more water and requiring more weight to sink it........altho I would expect this to be a "slight" difference as you have suggested. I will let you know more as I am making a topwater bait now and trying to come up with a formula for being able to predict where the bait will sit in the water once it's complete. I am measuring the weight of the bait in grams before adding sealer, primer, and clear coat. I will then weigh again the bait once it is complete and try to use this number as a predictor. thx. jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaPala Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 I'm curious to know what the "slight" diff will be too Jed, a formula would be great. When u're at it sink the whole lure into water and measure how much water it displaces before & after. I would expect the "slight" to be not so slight as volume (of cylinder) is calculated as a square of radius just a 1/2mm increace in radius would add up pretty quickly too. Plus that glob of epoxy is already a bigger blob to start with compared to the same weight glob of a piece of lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted August 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 I wish I had an accurate way of measuring all this. It might turn into more "trial and error" though since the amount of clear coat, paint, primer, etc., is probably not the same from one bait to the next. I have only built one, very happy with the action but have no idea what's going to happen once I clear coat the beast. What I did was lighten it up quite a bit and hoping that once the clear goes on I will be about where I need to be. ?????????? jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Jed, I have added e-tex to a 8" Jake and was sure the bait was more buoyant after e-tex.It sounds crazy,and I am not really sure of this because it happened only once.I was thinking maybe it added more displacement than weight?Or sometimes e-tex will have some super fine air bubbles in it.Richoc mentioned that as well.Let us know what you find.I did test this once where I dripped mixed e-tex into a cup of water,and some drips would float on the surface for a while,and then slowly sink. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richoc Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Some other uncontrollable factors...... Water surface tension. Air pressure Top waters are hard to guess. If they float with all hardware hanging you should be fine. But trial and error are the real teaching tools. You can get the wet weight of the clear coat before apply but at best it will be a guess as to how much will be appilied. Weight the amount that you expect to apply, make a weight that size to try. But this will be more inaccurate the longer that you test for it. The bait will pick up water if not finished. I have a few tricks for you if the the bait sinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckarren Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Jed, I had a lure I was testing sink just fine when I added the etex it did not sink after that. What type of top-water are you making? Some don?t need any weight!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted August 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Thanks guys, funny this subject hasn't come up on TU before, at least not that I can remember. What I ultimately did was weight the surface bait so that it sits just about where I want it to. I then sealed and primered the beast and will be painting it tonight. Tomorrow it will get it's first coat of clear and I am hoping that it doesn't sink! I will know more in a couple days what happens and will report back to TU. Rich, I have kept accurate measurements of what the bait weighs in grams prior to the clearcoating. I then tried estimating the amount of weight that will added from the clear coat. If I add this amount to the bait in lead it sinks! I am hoping that the Archimedes law (thanks to Lapala reminding me) of water displacement will offset some of the weight of the clear coat. Some other things were also mentioned, air bubbles, etc., and maybe this is having some effect too, time will tell. Corey, Making a topwater walk the dog type bait. I am using redwood and it's light enough that I think at least some lead will be needed. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Jed: I only make topwater. I have not had any problem having them sink after top coat. I have used dense wood like maple without any problems. Go for it coat that plug. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted August 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Thanks Martin, she's getting her first coat in about 5 minutes. jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoneFishin Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 I believe what you are going for is a bait with a specific gravity of about .99. LaPala was right what you have to do is weigh the water displaced by the bait then weigh the bait. If they are the same you have neutral bouyancy or a specific gravity of 1. Example if the weight of the water displaced is 300 grams and the weight of the bait is 250 grams, 50 grams of weight must be added to achieve neutral bouyancy. If it is a muskie bait you have to consider the weight of the metal leader and snap, that extra weight has to be add to the bait. If you are a little off one way or the other it is not hard to tweek it a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoneFishin Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 I believe what you are going for is a bait with a specific gravity of about .99. LaPala was right what you have to do is weigh the water displaced by the bait then weigh the bait. If they are the same you have neutral bouyancy or a specific gravity of 1. Example if the weight of the water displaced is 300 grams and the weight of the bait is 250 grams, 50 grams of weight must be added to achieve neutral bouyancy. If it is a muskie bait you have to consider the weight of the metal leader and snap, that extra weight has to be add to the bait. If you are a little off one way or the other it is not hard to tweek it a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 First, if you are making a walk the dog bait I think you definitely will want to weight it, some were in the back third of the bait. I use a small bit of finesse weight right in the tail. Second, I make light weight top water baits and was concerned about the top coat adding weight so I did a few experiments. I eyeballed what I thought was the amount of top coat I would put on a lure and poured it into a milk jug cap to harden into wafers. I did this with Devcon and E-tex. The Devcon wafer sank quickly so I deduced it would have a measurable impact on the buoyancy of the bait. The E-tex wafer did not float or suspend but did sink very slowly. It is my less than scientific opinion that E-Tex has very little impact on a lures buoyancy, less than adding a split ring. Just something to chew on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted August 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Well the verdict is in on the topwater. Again, I weighted the bait so that it would sit at the level I wanted it to when completed. I then added primer, paint, and two coats of Etex and will likely add another. I tossed the bait into the water and.......................it sits just where it did before clearcoating, can't tell that it dropped or raised in the least bit. It seems to me that the gain in water displacement is very close to compensating for the additional weight gained by the primer, paint, and clearcoat. Cool!! I will post a pic of the bait in the gallery later today for those interested. Thx Guys. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
