georgio Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 hi everyone, i found tackleunderground today and i really like the site. i have always been very interested in making home made tackle and have had previous discussions on how to make home made squid jigs (which are lures to catch squid) on my main website called squidfish.net - http://www.squidfish.net/forums/index.php?showforum=27 more recently i created a new website called http://www.fishingpatents.com and i have started to slowly put it together. since there has been so much discussion at tackleunderground relating to patents, I thought perhaps you could give me some advice as to the topics I should cover on the site. at this stage all I have on the site is lists of fishing related patents (primarily from the Japan Patents Office). However I would like to write articles on more substantial topics that are of concern to tackle developers such as how to protect your invention and how to go about protecting your inventions, you to carry out a patent search, etc. i have some background in law and studied intellectual property in australia a few years back. so hopefully with my keen interest in fishing, tackle development and legal matters I can make the site useful for you all. all the very best to you and keep up the good work here at TU.com cheers, george (aka glen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaPala Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Welcome aboard. Your Lure Patent site is surely very informative. Thanks for sharing it, I've bookmarked it Will take some time to pour thru it to find questions unanswered. Meanwhile continue with your good job, with patents many surely would be like me --> "Don't even know where to start asking questions" :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgio Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 thanks for the feedback lapala, patents are pretty confusing for most people (other than people who work with them day and night!) - there seems to be a continual theme in the posts on TU.com -i.e. that lure makers need advice on deciding whether an application for a patent is worth their time, money and energy. and presumably they need/want advice on the alternative steps they can take to protect themselves (other than taking out a patent). perhaps this will be a topic that I will focus my energy on, at least initially. cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotton Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I'd like to see some info on what's legal to make without violating a patent. I think that would be pertinant info since most of us that are making lures are never going to apply for a patent, yet don't want to get into hot water over making something that might be patented... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgio Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 thanks very much cotton. that is a very good point. one thing that amazed me when i started doing research into fishing patents was the sheer number of patents already out there. this makes it extremely difficult for the average man in the street to know whether they are breaking the law or not when they design, make and sell their own lures. The more I get into this topic the more interested I become... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaPala Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Georgio, Wow sure is a huge collection of fishing patents in your site, I believe that's just the tip of the iceberg. Here's a list of stuff I'd like to see on the site: First... A FAQ Section, covering stuff like:[list:d42a2bd49a] 5% change in design can be patented? Myth or Fact Can patented stuff be copied/made for own use? (what cotton says) What can be patented? ... etc (Q&A covering the confusion over patent) Then more specifically for budding "inventors" who think that their ideas have a shot... [*]How to protect ur idea before it's patented [*]The International validity of patents [*]Patent DIY forms/formats, notes on how to record ur idea/invention [*]How to do a patent search [*]How to apply for a patent [*]Options other than patent application for protection [/list:o:d42a2bd49a] I might list more but these I feel are questions that I've notice is frequently asked. My 2 cents is to start the site off with info for the complete novice. Questions and things that would have to be done correctly before an attorney (professional help) is needed. At the stage when professional help is acquired, they probably won't be referring to your site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgio Posted August 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 thank you LaPala! that sort of feedback is really helpful for me. looks like I have a lot of work to do! haha george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskie magnet Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 I am no expert on the matter but do hold a provisional patent on a bait. I was told by my patent attorney that it could not be patented if it had already been offered for sale or had appeared in a public event such as a tourney. Reproducing a patented bait for your own use only is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhopper Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Georgio' date=' Wow sure is a huge collection of fishing patents in your site, I believe that's just the tip of the iceberg.Here's a list of stuff I'd like to see on the site: First... A FAQ Section, covering stuff like:[list:8866216a73] 5% change in design can be patented? Myth or FactIn most cases this is Myth Can patented stuff be copied/made for own use? (what cotton says)The answer to that is NO! not without infringing What can be patented?Anything that is not obvious from the prior art and has an actual use ... etc (Q&A covering the confusion over patent) Then more specifically for budding "inventors" who think that their ideas have a shot... [*]How to protect ur idea before it's patented This depends on the country your wanting to protect it in, there are a few ways in the US , that are not availible else where [*]The International validity of patents You can not inforce a patent in one country, if it was first patented in another country (actually your not suposed to be able to get one issued, but it has happened) A patent only protects you in the country/s it is issued in [*]Patent DIY forms/formats, notes on how to record ur idea/invention Recording your inventions is done in a bound inventor's note book, that needs to be witnessed after each entrey, you must keep more than just a note on you came up with this design on this date, you must show due deligence on bringing your invention to practice, otherwise they can nullify your priority date saying you abandoned the idea [*]How to do a patent search It took me two years to learn this, I can't put two years of learning here :-) [*]How to apply for a patent Find a "good" agent or attorney and have them do it, let me explain why, you don't file for it yourself,, a patent is only as good as the person who writes it, if you actualy need a patent (that means you need it in court), the other side will have the best pro they can find, to find holes in the way the patent is writen, one left out, or even added word can destroy your protection, by greatly limiting it's scope [*]Options other than patent application for protection [/list:o:8866216a73] Copyright sometimes will work even better than a patent, but with most inventions it can't even be used except in their directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhopper Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 I am no expert on the matter but do hold a provisional patent on a bait.For one thing' date=', there is no such thing as a Provisonal patent, you just have filed a provisonal aplication, this jsut protects your filing date for when you actualy file for a "real" patent. the provisional gives you no rights until after your utility patent issues, is it ever does I was told by my patent attorney that it could not be patented if it had already been offered for sale or had appeared in a public event such as a tourney. In the US this is not true, you have 12 months "after" it is offered for sale, or used in public, to file. if your in the US and your attorney told you this,, then you need to find another attorney, he is just after your money, wanting you to file before you find out if it has a market, as 98% of all US patents have no market, he is afraid if you find out , you won't pay him to file for you, on a worthless ( has no real market, that would justify a patent) invention, nd he is LYING to get you to use his services fast. Reproducing a patented bait for your own use only is ok If your (US) attorney told you this, then you had better just run, as he does not know US patent law .[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotton Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't the one who said it was okay to make patented copies for personal use... what I was asking is how do we know that every time we make a lure (that isn't a direct copy of a lure that's well known and now off patent) we're not violating someone's patent? I mean, if we are trying to be creative, and make something new (which I don't really believe can happen, but for the sake of argument I'll agree with) how do we not know that we're infringing on a patent unknowingly? Finally, how did the myth that you can make stuff for your own use as long as you don't sell them get started? Thanks, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhopper Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 [ quote="cotton]just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't the one who said it was okay to make patented copies for personal use...what I was asking is how do we know that every time we make a lure (that isn't a direct copy of a lure that's well known and now off patent) we're not violating someone's patent? The only way is do a patent search, unless the lure has "patented" on the package, some do, but sometimes they use "ptented to scare off people, the patented part of the lure may only be a very small part. I have seen major companies putting patented on a new hot design, but when I looked up the patent, it was only on the "salt" in the lure, not the design, so anyone could copy it, just leave out the salt. I mean, if we are trying to be creative, and make something new (which I don't really believe can happen, but for the sake of argument I'll agree with) how do we not know that we're infringing on a patent unknowingly? Your one of the few that actualy care if they infringe, I'm glad to hear that you do. Finally, how did the myth that you can make stuff for your own use as long as you don't sell them get started? It used to be true, you could copy anything for personal use, but they changed the law. Today it is infringing the same as selling them. "USE" is spelled out clearly now in patent law Qoute from http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#patent The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, ?the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling? the invention in the United States or ?importing? the invention into the United States. What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention. It's hard to belive but many people have patents on things they can't even make themselves, because they have only patented part of the item, other parts of it are covered by other's patents that are in force, thus blocking them from even making a prototype, unless they bought the patented part from the patent holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotton Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Okay, the cloudiness is clearing up...so, it used to be true that you could make a patented lure for your own use if you didn't sell the lure...can you tell me when did the law change and why (thanks for your patience)? Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrawChuck Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Interesting information in an old topic but all the old topics here are interesting! Having had a lawyer look at some of my lures molded from real crays and frogs back in the late 80's and been told that you cannot patent a reproduction of nature...does anyone know that to be true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
