millsryno Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Hey guys. I am starting this post because I have researched all I can on the forum and online. There is a lot of tidbits of info here and there regarding pouring pots, but not one singular post with a lot of good info and comparisons. I know that most of us use pyrex cups in the microwave, but I know there is a handful of guys using pots. Please chime in if you have a pot, have used a pot, have seen one of these pots or whatever else. I got a sweet deal on a mixer like the one pictured on the MPU2 Wenesco pot on their website. $135 off ebay. It has 7.5 in/lb of torque. I am crossing my fingers this is powerful enough. If not, I got a good deal on this and will sell it to somebody else who can use it. Anybody know how this will perform with salted plastic? Now I want to get the pot. I mostly make stick baits (heavy salt) and have a few stores lined up that I can sell them in. I need to be able to pour as efficiently as possible. The pyrex glass in the microwave won't cut it. I have done all the online research I can to compare the difference between all the pots. These are the vendors I have looked at: Wenesco, Sta-Warm, Rite-Hete, Waage and C.E.S. Is there anybody else I should look at? I think I am going to go with a 2 gallon pot or smaller. I was also slightly thinking of going with a 5 gallon pot just incase one day I needed more production since I could always put less plastic in there. 5 gallons is a lot of plastic, though. What sizes are you guys using and how well does that size work for you? I am thinking of going with a 450 degree thermostat. I am leaning toward pots with blanket heating vs. those that only heat on the bottom. Any input on this? I think the Sta-Warm and Wenesco are blanket heated. I think Waage and C.E.S are bottom heated. I am not exactly sure on the Rite-Hete but I think they are blanket heated as well. Is it worth the extra money? I think I want a digital thermostat instead of a manual thermostat, preferably with the high heat temperature control. Can anybody vouch if this is worth the extra costs? How accurate are the digital controls with high heat limit? It looks like the Sta-Warm pots are elevated off the work bench and there is a nozzle on the bottom of it. It looks like you lift a handle to dispense. The unit looks similar to a REALLY nice Lee pot. The other units have a spigot sticking out of the side and some sort of ball valve. Does anybody know the advantages or disadvantages to either of these styles? Does the Sta-Warm have a heated nozzle? Does plastic tend to get caught in it? For those of you using the other pots with the spigot sticking out of the side, how well does this work? Most of the pictures I see just show the spigot sticking straight out. Do you have to get an elbow attatchment or something to make it point down? Most of the spigots seem to be heated. Is this essential? Does anybody know if any of these pots have a sloped bottom to help get all of the material out? How well does your unit dispense all of the plastic without leaving waste inside the pot? Can a mixer be installed to a Sta-Warm? The reason I ask is because the dispensing handle is at the top of the pot and there is probably an arm or something inside the pot. Will this get in the way of the mixer? Sorry, I know that is a lot of questions. I know there are a lot of guys probably wondering the same things I am or may be soon when they get ready to purchase a pouring pot. I appreciate any input you have. Thanks, Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Hi Ryan, Good post, I had & still have alot of the concerns you are having, I can help with a few, but would also like input from anyone on the others. The mixer, 7.5 lbs of torque isnt bad, I have a variety of motors from small timers up to 200lb in. gearmotors & even with a 5lb. in gearmotor I cant stall the shaft with my barehand. a couple considerations are the diameter of the pot, as the torque load should be greater as the mixer paddle travels farther away from the shaft. Another is the durometer (shore) of the plastic. The mixer will see the most work on initial heating & cooling of your pouring sessions, of course if youre using virgin (not reheated) plastic, then its no problem as the viscosity is best in the liquid/virgin state. I'm probably wrong here, but most lure plastisols are @ a 5-10 shore durometer, if that translates into tear strength (lbs.) then your motor torque should be fine. we've had members who use 5 gal Sta-Warm pots, but my handbuilt pot is only gonna be 2 gallons. Blanket heating is the best way to go IMO, blanket heating is obviously better for consistency. Thats why microwaving is so popular versus using a burner, the heat is delivered consistently over the whole batch for the most part. If you will be depending on a mixer, however the single bottom element might not be a problem for you. Digital thermostats are the most accurate, this might be the most important investment to make. as you know, lure plastisol has a pretty small window between good pouring temp & scorching, so.... Id like input on ball valves vs. rod valves & if the valves are heated & how. Have Ni-crome wire, will travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Red I thought I was told 3-5 on the durohmeter reading but I dont fully remember. I think the only problem like you stated would be when the plastic turns to a gel state, thats when it will be the toughest to turn/mix. the motor should be fine. and a gear reduction drive is always a possibility, they can be bought at grangers. I know lots of guys that use table top drill press's and make a stirrer. Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lure_learning Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I am far from an expert but I have a Sta-Warm pot and my one complaint is that the funnel valve at the bottom and parts of the arm RUST . I have it in my basement with a dehumidifier running constantly and after doing some initial testing with salted plastic it rusted fairly quickly. I haven't addressed this with them yet but I will. It does have an arm but there's still room to place a mixing propeller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebler_custom_baits Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 when i worked at SR salted plastic NEVER went into the staywarms that is what the lee pots were for. Must really suck to have parts rust on expensive equipment glad im so cheap as far as pouring goes. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted August 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I am far from an expert but I have a Sta-Warm pot and my one complaint is that the funnel valve at the bottom and parts of the arm RUST . I have it in my basement with a dehumidifier running constantly and after doing some initial testing with salted plastic it rusted fairly quickly. I haven't addressed this with them yet but I will. It does have an arm but there's still room to place a mixing propeller. Great info! This is some of the information we need! All of my baits are poured with salt so this will be something I want to look out for. What size tip does your sta-warm have? Do you have any problems with it getting clogged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pourboyplastics Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I have a few of the sta-warm pots plus a large amount of Lee pots. First of all like siebler stated salt never goes into the sta-warm pots, I learned this the hard way after having parts rust like crazy on one of my pots. So all salt baits are poured from the lee pots. I have both the 1 gallon and 2 gallon sizes in the Sta-warm pots which are large enough for me to pour thousands of baits a week. After working with the Sta-warms for some time now I think the best performance is when you fill them up about 2/3 of the way, just my opinion. As for stirring I have table top drill presses that stirs for me which are inexpensive and work very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lure_learning Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I believe the tip size is 1/4" and to tell you the truth, I haven't used it enough to give you a solid answer on clogging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted August 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 If you have one of these pots...do you do your cooking/pouring with the lid on? I am thinking it would help with cook times, but am worried about condensation and moisture getting into the plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pourboyplastics Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I never use the lid, gets in the way of the stirring machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james bradshaw Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 You could have a stainless steel pour spout and rod made at a machine shop,to avoid some of the rusting problems. The 1/4" spout usually doesn't have a problem with clogging,when using heavy salt,as long as the plastic is stirred constantly. Just my two cents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.J. Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 So if the Sta-warm pots rust with salt, what is the best method for high production stick worms? Is is microwave with a lot of molds? I only have a couple of stick molds, but I am looking to up my production capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebler_custom_baits Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 If you have one of these pots...do you do your cooking/pouring with the lid on? I am thinking it would help with cook times, but am worried about condensation and moisture getting into the plastic. We always did all the cooking in the microwave to speed things up just preheat the pots before adding plastic. Kept the lid on the pots so that there was less smoke. Never had a problem reaching in every 5-10 minutes and giving a few stirs with the putty knive to mix up the glitter. Cleaning was a breeze too. Just remove the spring and bold and hang something on the handel and allow plastic to drain into a pyrex. After draided use a putty knive to get all other plastic into the pour spout so it also drains. Now use a long screwdriver and a paper towel to get out any left over plastic. It is now clean. When you add the next color you are pouring however you may want to pour a little into a scrap cup to get any remaining plastic out of the spout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted August 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 So if the Sta-warm pots rust with salt, what is the best method for high production stick worms? Is is microwave with a lot of molds? I only have a couple of stick molds, but I am looking to up my production capacity. DJ, I sent emails to Waage, CES, Wenesco, Dip Seal, Sta-Warm and Rite Hete for more information on their pots. So far Wenesco and Dip Seal have responded. Wenesco has a model MPU2 (www.wenesco.com) that they claim will not rust. It is a 2 gallon unit with a digital thermostat. The valve has it's own thermostat as well. It is blanket heated and has a high heat shut off limit. I asked Brian down there a lot of questions about it and so far this is the pot I am leaning toward. The only thing I displike is that the he told me the bottom of the pot is flat and not slanted to help get all the plastic out. He says it will leave about 1/8 inch inside the pot. He has offered to add an elbow and 1/4" nozzle to help dispense it into the mold. The price was about $850 plus shipping which he quoted me $20. Dip Seal has a pot that runs about $710+ but it is only heated on the bottom. I got an email from Jeff over there and he was very informative. I am still unclear if their pot includes a high heat shutoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted August 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 We always did all the cooking in the microwave to speed things up just preheat the pots before adding plastic. Kept the lid on the pots so that there was less smoke. Never had a problem reaching in every 5-10 minutes and giving a few stirs with the putty knive to mix up the glitter.How long would it take to heat up a gallon of plastic in the pot? I am hoping ot eliminate the microwave all together. Also, after you trim the bait, can you throw the "scrap" back into the pot with the melted plastic with no problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebler_custom_baits Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 No clue about a gallon most i ever did was like 4 cups most the time it was 2. I remember starting the plastic at 2 minutes then stiring then maybe anotehr minute. Just try a few times and see your results and go on that information. You microwave, type of plastic, size of measuring cup etc etc effect your cooking time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Just my 2 cents worth, A pot heats the plastic just on the bottom, or on the bottom and sides. Microwaves focus the heat about an inch into the plastic, effectively doubling the amount of plastic actually being heated. The kink in this rope is the fact that the plastisol is a pretty good insulator, and thus tries to block the travel of heat through it. The first blast in the microwave cures about half of the plastic, mostly in the middle, leaving a milky ring and bottom. Stirring it up includes the millk. Second blast cures almost all of it, except a thin film of milk against the glass. Another stir, and maybe a few more seconds, and it's good to go. Same scenario in a pan on a stove takes at least twice as long, maybe more. A pot ususally automates the stirring, but it still takes time. Another factor is the fact that if plastisol is held at high heat for a long time, some ingredients evaporate, (the smell, and the smoke) changing the characteristics of the plastic, usually for the worse. Nuking it gets it to the mold as quick as possible. jm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james bradshaw Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I always pre heat my plastic in the microwave as well,it cut down on time! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
