Alliance of Independent Tackle Craftsmen - Mission Statement

[LaPala]

I was suppose to PM this to KcDano but tought I might as well post it here since it's been reflected that there's short of feedback on this thing so maybe this could generate some more ideas. Nathan, I hope I'm not being an A$$ here, if u feel this doesn't belong here then jusst delete it & forwrd it to KcDano.

Okay, here's what I meant by weeding out. But seem we don't have much feedback then there's not much weeding but maybe say organising

A mission statement should specifically address at least these 3 points:

• Purpose of the organisation
  
• Buisness of the organisation (or how we are going to address the purpose of it's existance, what we should do)
  
• The values, principle and/or beliefs of the organisation

Okay so here's my reorganising of what u send me (those in blue Is what I added)

• Pupose:
  [list:23106f1ee2]
• Establishing an alliance of independent craftsmen,
  
• expand public awareness
  

[*]Our Duty(buisness):

• Acting as good stewards of the craft and alliance
  
• to be the worlds leading resource for high quality handmade lures and articles of tackle.
  
• preservation, cultivation and sharing(added)of knowledge and skill
  
• Promote awareness of the Independat Tackle Craftsman
  
• Advocate originallity and Abhorrs wanton copying of members designs for personal gain without prior consent
  

[*]Our Principle:

• produce ORIGINAL lures and articles of tackle unsurpassed in quality.

[/list:u:23106f1ee2]

Base on above, a longer Mission Statemnt:

AITC's mission is to unite independent tackle craftmans and create public awareness of the independant tacklemaking craft. Thru the Alliance, we shall built up and share the resources/knowlegde base in tackle making and in due process we will uphold the originality and quality of member independant tackle products.

A short one:

United, we share the craft & uphold the quality & integrity of Independant Tackle Craftsman.

NOTE: By talking of ensuring quality & uphold integrity & originality it implies a ranking/grading system will have to be implemented to act as a base of determining minimum standards. This will have to be worked out later. My view is that if the Alliance do not have a set of minimum standards for member products (the one for sale, ones u make for ur self then it's just u being the final jugde ) then we do NOT have a criteria to judge quality & the Alliance would be deem to have failed in achieving it's goal of quality assurance.

Mission statements can be change with the approval of the board and members consent when times situation changes & the alliance has to change to reflect that.

My 2 cents (oh and no spell check LOL)

[overkill]

Lapala, I totally agree. I think an association would be great, if its purpose would be to really promote the Trade to the fishing public and to set quality standards. However, I have seen several associations where a group of people just getting together to pat each other on the back. They treat it as a social event or some way to establish pecking order. To me that does not really do justice to the cause.

Just my .02$

[jaime]

I thinking there isn't much feed back on this Association thing mainly because it's pure BS!! Some of you have already shown that you're above the rest with the lures you make and you proudly display them in the TU gallery for all to see, but yet, you want to categorize the different levels just so that everyone visiting this site "knows it". I thought TU was about making and sharing information for all tackle makers on all levels and not separating/segregating them!

If LaPala and others want to be know as "master lure makers" well they can do that on their own websites leave TU out of it!!

[Mallard]

LaPala;

I would like to disagree with your statement, but not your vision. I can not put it into words as well as you, but I think the primary mission should be to "elevate the quality of tackle produced by independent craftsmen," or something like that.

I find the biggest obstacle to selling my lures is people think they look nice but don't have confidence that they really work. The truth is they look like garbage compared to what most of the TU members produce but they out perform virtually every commercial bait. Any hack can carve and paint a piece of wood. Around here the Boy Scots make lures as a fund raiser, I always buy one from them and give them some words of encouragement, but the fact is they are junk that won't hold up to water. Also, there are carvers that make lures for display not fishing, I want a way to for people to know my lures are quality and really work.

Therefore, I would like the Alliance to do three things for me.

1) Identify me with an organization the cares about quality

2) Honestly rate my skills so I know where to improve

3) Help other craftsmen improve their product so there is less junk out there

In return I would support the organization financially and produce the best possible product I can and label it with the ATIG seal.

Jamie;

I don't know where you are coming from but Nathan, LaPala, Skeeter and many others on this board do not need an organization to anoint them "Master." If you look at there work and read their posts it is obvious they know what they are doing. Every since I found TU my product has gotten better and it is because of people like Nathan, LaPala and Skeeter who are raising the bar for all of us, and they are also more than willing to share.

I would be honored to have evaluate my work and grade me, it would only help me to improve.

[cranker]

Guys the alliance has nothing to do with TU and will not change anything at all.When this first started I was dead against it because I thought it would change the way TU functions and hurt the site,but after reading more into it and weighing out the positives and negatives of having an alliance or association I realized that this would only strengthen TU because it would enable you to be involved with and learn from some of the best in the business at making tackle.People are mis understanding this because they are not realizing that this will not in any way have any affect on TU or how things are done here.I love this site and owe everything I know about custom building and painting to this site and if I thought for one minute that having this alliance would hurt it in any way then I would not be involved in it.Please read all of the post pertaining to this alliance and then sit down and think it out before you blast it and post all the negative comments about it. After you have really thought it over if you still think that its a bad deal , then you have just as much rite to blast it as I have to defend it.I am still very much a newby at tackle building and painting, but the way I see it is that it can only better my skills and get me to where I want to be as a craftsman to be involved with a formal alliance where members are very talented at what they do and are willing to share their knowledge with you to assure that as a member you will also build high quality tackle.Idont see it as showing off or patting anyone on the back because if you are really wanting to build or paint baits that are just as presentable as the ones the big boys do then you can only help yourself by getting in the game and not sitting on the sidelines watching.I hope this does not offend anyone because everyone here has a rite to post their opinion , but dont try to tear something down just because you dont think that you are interested in participating.

[KcDano]

Cranker, spot on statement !

[jaime]

thank you mallard, that's exaclty my point!

[Skeeter]

jaime,

Let me tell you and everyone else that is against this rating thing where I come from on this subject. I believe that a rating system is a good thing. It is too easy for someone to say that they are a master bait maker or master carver and charge alot of money for nothing but garbage. Good handmade crankbaits are expensive. If I put out $18.00 for a crankbait and got nothing but garbage, then I doubt if I would buy another one. Those that work very very hard at their craft deserve to have their good name protected. Through the Alliance customers can check out a craftsman before they make a purchase. They can do some home work and make an informed decission on who they buy their bait from or who does work for them.

Your darn right that the tallented craftsmen of TU proudly display their work. They put countless amount of hours perfecting their skills and their baits. Lord knows how many failures that they have endured, along with the amount of of money that they have invested in tools, power equipment, paint, etc. And lets don't forget the amount of time that they have spent reading also. These hardworking craftsmen don't deserve to be taken down by some clown that comes onto the site, reads some material, turns out garbage, and calls himself a master craftsman. There are some crankbait makers that have been doing this for a long time that don't make baits worth a crap either. How much time do you think that Art Brush and Coley spent on learning about foam. Then they unselfishly share it with all on this site. How many folks do you think learned from me and Blackjack on making wooden crankbaits? It took Blackjack and I years and alot of hard work to learn what we have. I have never heard Tally refuse to help anyone on weighting their crankbaits. And LaPala has put up pictures of his work and always shared everything that he could with the community. And lets don't forget folks like Cullin8s and Blaides and Baits that have answered Lord knows how many questions on how they paint. This does not include many of the other excellent baitmakers that I have failed to mention in this post. I always talk about crankbaits because that is what I do. But I have in no way forgotten the many tallented spinnerbait makers and plastic pourers on this site. This is why I buy my own personal takle from TU members. There is no company that can make a bait better than TU craftsmen.

There has already been talk that there will be a division between those with a tax ID and those that do not. I think they call it professional and hobbyest. That would make me a hobbyest. That is what I am. I accept that. But I expect the Alliance to protect my good name along with good names of those that have worked so hard to establish the recognition that they have earned. I will stand behind that any day.

Skeeter

[Nathan]

What we are trying to do here guys is not out of the ordinary...check out:

www.rodguild.com on the right side of the page,click on members benefits,and read about certification...you'll notice it's not far off from what we are doing here..Nathan

[texasbass1]

I think anything that will protect the standards of our members is a good thing. As a hobbiest (sp) I have learned a lot from this site. I have been pouring soft plastics and spinnerbaits for my own use for 15+ years. But since they are for my use I allow myself some leeway at times. Custom crafted baits are an art and y'all are right that it only takes one to screw it up for all of you. I volunteered to help Nathan out in the beginning but this is way over my head. I am all for the Alliance and will support it and look forward to having my baits graded by some of the best. But despite my experience I am a novice (not really but I don't know the union term) and will continue to pick y'alls brains to get better. The quality of products I have seen on this site is amazing and it will only get better with this groups help. I don't see how this will effect TU since we all share ideas and opinions now. I think it will help the new members of TU to feel that they have some place to get good advice not just try this advice.

[jaime]

Skeeter, Nathan, Artbrush and others,

I want to thank all of you for the valuable information that you have posted on this site. Without your help, generosity, and knowledge I would still be spending my hard earned dollars buying corporate made cr*p and wouldn't have discovered this wonderful tradition! I truly admire your hard work and dedication to this craft AND some day I want to teach others to make lures for their own personal satisfaction! Lure making has not only become my hobby but I feel it has become part of me! Every lure that I make whether good or bad has with it a piece of my heart which no amount of rating system can measure. Just like an artist with his paintings! A person on the outside seeing an artist picture for the first time might think "well that doesn't look right" but the artist has a different perspective. And that, I believe is truly what this craft is about!! When you start to talk about producing high quality lures as opposed to bad quality lures you lose your perspective on what this site is all about! TRADITION, CRAFTSMANSHIP, COMMAREDERIE, KNOWLEDGE, SHARING....and the list goes on! Once you lose that perspective then it becomes about MONEY!! And that Gentlemen, is the true reason behind the rating system.

[KcDano]

Jamie

This rating system will mostly likely pertain to those within the alliance that are interested in commercial promotion and marketing their lures. It will garner participating members some measure of clout, in regards to offering the public a bait of quality. In addition, if the alliance does grow to significant size all members will reap from this. Not all members will be driven to sell their wares, which is evident by the diversity here on TU. Some labor for the satisfaction of creating their own bait and fishing the bait. Others are interested in the commercial promotion and marketing. From the hobbyist to the professional we all share the same interest. Don't let this idea of a rating system discourage you from actively participating in this fledgling alliance.

Texasbass,

Get over to Nathan's forum and contribute, I am confident you have something to offer.

[Tally]

Guys, I decided to become a spectator on this subject just to see where this was all heading. I hope I do not affend anyone and that certainly is not my intent, but I think there is a few things that just flat need to be cleared up.

1) TU will always be the place to share, learn, ask and meet some damn nice people. That will never change. Also, the photos that have been put up on this site inspire me to make a better lure, whether it is the paint, clearcoat or design and all of you who have posted photos of your baits should be proud of what you make even if it is the first one. No one on this site fell out of heaven on the rear end knowing how to make a lure, it takes time, trial and error and a strong will to sucede.

2) What really is the back bone of having an association? It is not a place to learn, that is what TU is about!! Is it a place where you can become a mastercarver? I don't think that is the issue either.

Personally, I think it is about making a lure, submitting that lure to the association with a description of what the lure is for, what is does and how it is going to perform. Then a pannel if you will, can judge the lure to see if it meets the associations standards, does what the make says it will do and is worthy of having the associations seal of approval. Then once the lurehas passed this process and the association has issued it's seal, a picture of the bait should be posted on the associations site saying that the bait has passed the associations standards. This would assure a prospective buyer that he is getting a bait that has passed the standards of the association and can now feel good about paying $18.00 for the lure.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this really why there is a need for an association? To protect our craft from the guy who spend no time making a lure and charging outrageous prices for a lure that is worthless?

3) I don't think that anyone who wants to be in this association worries about obtaining the "master carver" status, but they are interested in having a place to direct potential customers to see for themselves that they build a lure that passed the standards of the association and has the seal to prove it. The association is not BS and could be a very useful resource if it stays focused on the direction it wants to take.

4) Ratings? This might be just a bit strong? How about no rating but a simple passed the standards of the association? If the lure does not pass the standards, how about returning a letter to the maker stating why the lure did not pass and maybe some suggestions to help that maker make his lure better. All baits sent to the association become the property of the association......PERIOD!!!!!!

5) Charges for the seal of approval? Some sort of charge needs to be determined to cover the cost of shipping and handling to get the lure in hands of the ones who will be testing the lure. Sorry for the all mighty dollar being brought up, but someone has to pay these charges. This does not mean your lure will automatically pass the standards.

**** Sorry if I have stepped on some toes here, but the association has to be united first and have a direction. Some lures are going to be submitted and they will not meet the standards of the association, but they will get a letter telling them why so they can improve their lure.

$$$$$ You bet this is all about money. It is about guys making quality lures and get paid a premium price for their skill!!!!

???? I will be happy to answer any un-clear statements I have made and I hope this post will bring some light to where the association is going vs. where they would like it to go. Anyway, I wish this association the best of luck and let's remember this: at TU we are all friends, don't let the association ruin that!!!! You have a choice to join or not........

Tally

[KcDano]

Tally,

You should sign-up to the cause, the views and opinions you have expressed could yield some postive results in the initial structuring of this alliance. You being a member as oppossed to being a spectator, would benefit many and the alliance. Hustle over to Nathan's and get signed on!

[Tally]

Tally' date='

You should sign-up to the cause, the views and opinions you have expressed could yield some postive results in the initial structuring of this alliance. You being a member as oppossed to being a spectator, would benefit many and the alliance. Hustle over to Nathan's and get signed on![/quote']

Where is the link? I will take a look at it and be more than happy to give some ideas or suggestions.

Tally

[KcDano]

Tally

Good to hear you have joined on! Nathan is working on the forum, there should be something there tomorrow!

[Tally]

Tally

Good to hear you have joined on! Nathan is working on the forum' date=' there should be something there tomorrow![/quote']

No promises Kc...........I am just following the bouncing ball.

Tally

[Skeeter]

You have said it better than I ever could Tally. Every last word. Excellent !!

Skeeter

[muskie magnet]

I too am very new here and haven't had much to say. I will say that I believe the TU site is absolute topnotch. A great group of guys sharing what has taken them years of trial and error to learn. They will do what they can to give the up and comers a boost. I have been making muskie baits for over 30 years and I have also learned a few tidbits from the guys here. An association sounds great and I have no doubt that those caught up in the idea have the best of intentions and I applaud the effort.

But as Shakespeare or someone once said " the best laid plans of men oft go astray" and it could happen here. I would think that the primary purpose of a bait is to catch fish. I have a couple of baits in my tackle box that draw eeoowws and awhs from whoever looks at them --" thats magnificent did you really make that" or "oh what a beautiful lure I wish I had something like that" then I have an old beat up bait that nobody comments on--the paint is worn off it is chipped and there are hook rakes 1/4 inch deep cut into it. The difference in the baits? Yes that's right the beat up one that looks like crap has caught over 200 muskies the other two well to date they haven't caught a thing. Now tell me which bait would you rather have. There will have to be a panel to test these baits. This could be a hardship to some baitmakers. Some of the guys have baits that take weeks to make. I have seen some prices over $100 or $200 for these baits and for the amount of time and effort it takes to make them I can understand the high price---you really can't ask these guys to send a half of dozen baits to panel members for testing then keep the baits. Another problem---A guy manages to create a good looking bait that runs

good in the water. The panel gives the bait a high rating, seal of approval, commendation or whatever. The guy then goes out cuts corners and dumps an inferior product on the market, carrying the associations name and seal of approval. It might take a long time to discover the ruse. In the mean time the association is going to look bad for recommending this bait. Another problem---Approving a bait--A guy cuts the end off a broom handle puts a Cisco Kid lip on it and sends it in for approval saying it doesn't look real fancy but really catches muskie. The panel tests it and send back a letter " You must be kidding that is a piece of junk" Later that month a headline appears in newspaper--NEW BROOMHANDLE BAIT MAKES KILLING ON THE ST. LAWRANCE-- hmm maybe the panel should have approved that bait? It is not always easy to predict weather a bait will catch fish or not. Just one of the reasons why it would be impossible to give a 1 to 10 rating let alone a simple approval or disapproval. I am not against an association but I can see some bumps in the road. I'm not throwing stones here I am trying to act as devil's advocate. I'm not afraid of having our bait rated. It has already been rated by Muskiefool on his website www.muskiefool.com and i would be willing to help in most any way I could to make the association a success.

[millsryno]

The more and more I read, the more and more I like the eBay rating system the best. The customers are the ones who should judge the final product. They are the ones forking out the dough, getting the customer service and fishing the lure/bait.

[LaPala]

Let's get this rating thing striaght from my point of view...

It is NOT ranking

It is NOT saying who is good

It is about setting up a mininal standards.

Just like cars for example. It has to pass certain safty test, road worthiness etc. Ford makes good cars, but some models are crap. The same goes for tackles & lures. One model from a reputable maker/manufactures maybe excellent, others might be bad.

So the point is, the rating system is about setting up certain standards and guidelines to make sure the ones that passed the test is "road-worthy". It's NOT about who is who in tackle making.

Being guilty of ruffling a few feathers... Anyone who's concerned about being labeled a certain level is just wallowing in thier own ego. I'm not concern about ranking, it's the quality in a lure that counts. As this applies to the lures not the person. I can make some good lures, but the process to get there will tbe the failures, the prototypes.... Mininmal standards seal of approval is to prevent these "failures" or a hastily clobbered-up copy of some lures from reaching the market prematurely.

Ideally, the testing process for Seal of Approval will be a blind test, with the testers having no prior knowledge of the maker. Results will be solely based on the merits of the product.

PS: All systems are subceptible to abuse. There's FDA but still there are law suits on drugs having "undisclosed" effects. The world is not perfect.

I have digressed:

Look at this Mission statement from Custom Rod Builders Guild: "Our Mission: To uphold the Guild's standards of craftsmanship and aid in the promotion of professional rod building while expanding the art and science of fishing rod building through education."

All the ingredients for AITC is there:

They say uphold standards, so a set of standards must be in place b4 it can be upheld

The other part is about sharing of knowledge, promoting the craft.

This is what the Association is about or aspire to be, not a bigboys club as some perceive it to be. If u're afraid that it could just be a bigboys club, why not join in the formation of it & let ur voice be heard to prevent that from happening

Addendem:

I'm voicing my opinions because I really believe if done right, AITC can be a good thing to benefit us all. As a Hobbiest, I make my lures mostly for personal use & the satisfaction derived from it. So I hope it's not read as a glory trip or satisfying my ego. I sincerely hope the formation of AICT can benefit us all in all levels. SO lets leave personal issues aside & get on with it. Voice ur opinions, like Mallard did --- what he espects from the Alliance. Speak about ur concerns, all this will lead the formation towards the right path.

[Skeeter]

Muskie magnet,

I understand, what you have to say is a valid concern.

Yes that's right the beat up one that looks like crap has caught over 200 muskies the other two well to date they haven't caught a thing.

The alliance would probably not be rating baits as to how they catch fish. Only the craftsmanship and materials that was used to make the bait. They might also rate the action of the lure. I really don't know. But it seems to me that to ask the Alliance to put up the money to take submitted baits out on the water for fish catching evaluations would be unreasonable.

I have seen some prices over $100 or $200 for these baits and for the amount of time and effort it takes to make them I can understand the high price---you really can't ask these guys to send a half of dozen baits to panel members for testing then keep the baits.

If a person makes a $200.00 bait and he wants it rated by the Alliance, then he would have to caugh one up. The Alliance would not solicit baits from baitmakers. The baitmakers that send their baits in obviously want their baits evaluated by the Alliance. It is not the fault of the Alliance that he has decided to make $200.00 baits.

The guy then goes out cuts corners and dumps an inferior product on the market, carrying the associations name and seal of approval. It might take a long time to discover the ruse.

I agree, but I don't know how the Alliance or anyone else can guarentee that this does not happen. But if the Alliance started to receive alot of complaints about a lure for the reasons that you mentioned, then I would think that they would just purchase one on the open market and do some more testiing.

I think that too many folks are looking at the Alliance like it is some kind of "Iron Clad" guarantee against all things bad. I don't see how that can happen. But, it can clean up alot of the garbage that is starting to plague our craft. Setting some standards is better than setting no standards at all.

Skeeter

[Volp1]

After reading everyones responses, I have a question. If the association is supposed to protect the buyer from buying a sub-standard bait and paying top dollar for it, then (as Muskie Magnet said) how can you/we attest to its preformance? Are we just saying the bait is "constructed" to our standards but as far as preformance you are on your own. If thats what we're saying, then I think we should either address both aspects of a bait or none at all. Does that make sense?

Thanks.

Volp1

[SeminoleFan]

Guys, I have been reading this with great interest since the beginning. Albeit I have not had a lot of time to respond. I am definetly for the association and support it!

[Nathan]

Let me clarify something that has been a ongoing battle for sometime..Lapala is right..the Association will give a "Stamp of Approval" for meeting minimum standards.What are those standards?...Here is a list of IDEAS..

1.Are quality components used

2.Are the eye screws or through wiring straight

3.Is the diving bill straight

4.Does a floater float..a sinker sink..a suspender suspend..

5.does it track straight and wobble

6.Exceptable paint job..

As you see,these are pretty basic..soft plastic,and lead guys would have their own list of standards...

There is no way too take into the account the fish catching ability of a lure...a bait that works great in California,may not be worth its weight in Balsa in the Carolina's..that just doen't work into the equasion at all..

Who would need this stamp of approval?..Anyone who wants too use the Association name too promote their lures...

How will the Association keep a eye on quality..We will have SHOPPERS...Just because you sent us one lure for approval doesn't mean a lure you sell 2 months from now isn't going too a shopper to check up on quality..Nathan