jigman Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Does anyone know where I can get a custom aluminum mold made besideds Del? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dutchman Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Call Bob's Tackle Shack at 602-818-3098 or 623-587-4883 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigman Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigman Posted January 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Has anyone else had to wait 7 months for a custom mold from Del? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.J. Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 I've been waiting over a year now for two custom molds. It gets frustrating, but I also understand that Del has to do his production work first. I gave Bob a couple of molds to do a little while back, and he just finished one and is almost done with the second. I wish there was another source for aluminum molds out there because I know both Bob and Del get slammed. It almost makes me want to invest in a CNC machine. If only I had a clue on how these things work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragfly Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 How much do they charge for a custom mold? I can't even get them to return my e-mail. Just curios because I have a machine shop I am talking with about building my aluminum custom molds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dutchman Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I am sure Del is a wonderful guy but the service is slooow. Several times I sent him baits for custom molds to be made - no response. Sent in a regular order (in stock) stuff in November - haven't seen it since. I guess it is the nature of the beast. The bigger you get the slower you get. Bob is the same way with custom baits - I am still waiting over a year for a reply about a custom order. If you really want to buy a cnc machine go rob a bank - they are expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigman Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Glad to hear it's not only me.Ive' talked to Del several times over the phone and he seems like a nice guy.I've ordered from his online store and was very pleased with the service.I just wish I could get a definitive delivery date on the mold.I understand he's busy but if your going to advertise selling custom molds then you should be able to deliver the product after you have accepted the order in a reasonable amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vishezfish Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I hear ya guys... I'm waiting too! Been a few months what scares me is some of you guys mentioned years ??? I hope not!! I also am waiting on a custom mold and some stock molds he sells! They are very nice... April is cool and Delw is great but I sure can use my molds!! If anyone buys a CNC machine let me know!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlybass Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 What is the going price for a custom two cavity open pour soft plastic mold?Four cavity custom two part jig?Two cavity two part soft plastic?Custom being something not listed for sale on a site. A "special".Are you all looking at long lead times on production/off the shelf molds or just the custom work? Do not hold your breath,but I am looking at 15 CNC mills...idle on nights.Understand that they do not "have" to run.They are idle by choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dutchman Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 OK what's your point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 My guess would be the point is: If there is enough interest, those CNC's could be running instead of idle!!!!!! There is a need, especially in light of Bob's tragedy. We can only hope he decides to come back up!!! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dutchman Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 To my knowledge there are only two people making alum. molds for hand pourers - Del and Bob. Bob is down and Del. well I don't know where he is. I would think that another mold maker would be a big asset. I would use him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.J. Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Does anyone know what kind of machines Bob and Del use. I did a search for CNC machines and It came up with all sorts of stuff. What would a used machine cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedHed Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 You guys might want to check out Will@willsplastics.com out of San Diego. He's selling aluminum CNC molds that seem to be cheap enough. I haven't personally dealt with him or bid on his molds but his feedbacks are up there. I think he has some molds that are coming off bid in a couple of days. Also, there has been another guy selling CNC molds on eBay as well ? will try to locate more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I believe those machines are $60K+. If somebody were to get in the business I strongly beleive they would have all the business they could handle. I know Del has those machines running all the time and can hardly keep up. I really believe somebody could make a killing if they would handle the custom molds that everybody wants. Of course, people need to realize that those come at a premium price over stock molds. For those guys that have purchased the custom molds from Del or Bob...what are we talking 2-3 times what a stock mold goes for?? I haven't even bothered with that because I am too impatient to wait that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Will is a TU member!!! He is just selling molds he doesn't use as much anymore I think. The other seller on eBay way getting his molds from Del and Bob... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.J. Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I have a email in to Hi-Tech Lure Molds. They make custom spinnerbait, jig and weight molds. Hopefully this could be another source for molds. I will let you know what I find out. Their website is http://www.hitechluremolds.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Ive been watching this topic and have been going back or forth if I want to reply or not. I am not bashing anyone, I am not whining about anything, I am trying to explain the whys and hows of machining and whats involved. Theres a few things that maybe should be pointed out and I am sure other machine shop guys on this site will agree. Ive been in this business for a long time ie maching. Ive seen guys come and go, alot more guys come thinking they are going to make a killing and they end up loosing everything. Ive trained many people on maching and helped a few people get started into it. Mill cost: A cnc mill will cost you about 80-200 K new used anywhere from 35-80k Thats just the machine NO training NO tooling. Remember just because you see them for 20k doesnt mean they work or will last very long with out problems. If you have to call a repair guy for your machine it runs a min of 350 bucks plus parts, if your someone who knows how to fix machines you save on the labor and trouble shooting. One simple number mistake you will crash the machine and could be in for tens of thousands of dollars. a typicle machine problem usually runs 1k or better , some parts are obsolete and you have to have a machine shop make them. Tooling cost: since you dont have any you will need to buy some, depending on what kind of machine you buy prices will vary. so we will start with common tools tool holders due to high speeds you need decent ones so figure about 100 bucks(average) each including retention knobs. then you have collets and usually 3 sets per machine works about 750 bucks (remebber you get what you pay for) figure start up about 3-5k easy Vise's typ. about 400 bucks each. YOU must have GOOD ONES no cheap ones work in this business. you need a min of 2 yeah one will work but its a waste of time. if you work with plate and no vises you will need to by a holding plate( thats what I call it) this plate if alum. will cost about 400-600 bucks and will need ot be machined and have holes put in it to hold molds time your looking at design and run time of 2-10 hours depending on what your going to do. if you buy one already made up to $6,000 end mills: if you run anything other than carbide your wasting your time on highspeed machineing the run anywear from $10-300 ( remember again you get what you pay for) figure 300-1000 for start up. Then you need a place to run it with 3 phase power, all the oils for the machines and coolants figure 200 bucks for start up. Not bad so far, but here comes the tricky part: Machine experiance: if you dont have any your not going to make it, its easy to learn, but you need to know the mechanics of machining in order to learn( pleanty of schools offer class's while some might think its a waste to learn to run hand mills and lathes I think its the best and only way to make a machinist a real machinest Programming the touchy part. The machine just doesnt run on its own you have to be able to program it. Programing doesnt happen over night, Thats why machining experiance is a must. but lets say you have some experiance. you will need a cad cam system runs anywhere from 800 to 20k thats just for the software. if you need training some program manufactures will train you, others have cd's and videos. so you need ot be a quick learner. now just because you have a programming software doesnt mean it will make your part. you need to know how to use it not only that ITS imparitive that you HAVE machine experiance and can read code. If you cant you just cause 10K worth of damage to your brand new machine. Trust me I have hired enough people in my time and have had this happen. Ask bobby he has seen the same. so lets say you do all this stuff and your up and ready to go, your there done and in business. Now comes an even tricker part over head: remember you ahave all this over head unless you have lots of money to spend. so now the machine needs to start producing and pay for its self. your selling alot of molds for a cheap price at the end of the month chances ar your not going to pay your bills, I can almost bet that you wont pay your bills with the money you make just from fishing molds. so now what do you do? AH you start looking for other work , problem is unless you have lots of experiance your not going to get it, plus you will need a full inspection dept. if you jump into aerospace your talking big bucks. also alot of companies wont send out JUST partial mill work you might need to buy a cnc lathe. Dont forget these companies have blueprints to go by and in those blueprints is specs and tolorances. you have to have a good machine and inspection equipment to hold specs, plus most want all outside process's done and they only want a finished part. So now your in this for around 100k MIN ( including building rent elect tooling support equipment machine software etc) all the little things add up. This would be from a scratch build up with one machine. Custom molds: a custom molds takes about 1-6 hours to program, then set up time and run time could take up to 5 hours, if your good and have lots of experiance set up time and run time takes 30 mins to 2 hours this is all time which is over head and needs to be bill accordingly. and dont forget to add material cost. most people want just one mold so they get sticker shock with the price of a custom mold, if they ordered 10 the setup price and programming price is divided by 10. it will cut your per mold cost down. Also need ot add, if you have the experiance you can generally program and run one bait and have it be what the customer wants, when I first started I some of my custom molds took ten trys before I was happy with it. now you send it to your customer and he dont like it or wants something changed you have to do it again, edit the program reset the machine up etc. Remember your just giving a programmer a bait then explaining to them how you want it different so they have to really hope they understood you correctly other wise you have a unhappy customer. This is ONE reason I never charge for a custom bait until its finished cause I could be sitting on there money for a few months till we get the bugs ironed out and then out lots of money and time in the long run and worse a unhappy customer. Sometimes you get guys saying there friends a programmer and this can save you the programming time which will save them the programming cost. NO offence to any one, BUT your an absolute fool to run someone else's program in whom you dont know, I dont care how good they say they are, remember its your machine you have to pay for it not them. again one slip up and boom your 10 grand worth of repair bills. I have destroyed a brand new 150k hitachi seiki ( it was 2 days old) when I was first starting in this business, i have had employees destroy 50-100k machines with the hit of one key moving the decimal place the wrong way. I am fortunate since i have 2 screw machines to do aerospace work and do some boat work along with other sales which pays my bills, My mill is old but runs decent and lately has been breaking and causing major time problems. we are looking into getting a new machine and going through the process now. Now the bottom line the amount of machine time determins the amount of molds you can make, if you want to be successful you need to put long hours in, not 8 hours 5 days aweek and your done more like min of 12hours per day 7 days a week. you also need to use your time wisely, when your machine is running there is really nothing for you to do, so you program the next batch of molds. Heck I have a total of 600+ molds programmed both production and custom molds just waiting on machine time. Typ. machine cost in our state AZ is 100bucks per hour but they get more than that. tahts why you will see machine shops pass up work or have machines sit at idle. it cost money to turn the machine on, while some people think that hey if the machines are sitting at idle there loosing money they actually are not they are saving money, cause if they turned the machines on to make a few bucks per hour they have ot pay thier empoyees there employees are not going to work for a fraction of there normal wages. Take a senko bait to almost any shop in the usa as ask for a quote, some of my customers have done this and have posted it in here. one cheap one that I remember( one of my customers telling me ) off hand was 397 dollars each for a 7 cavity 2 pcs mold with a min order of 10 and a set up charge of 500 bucks a brush hog mold 300-400 bucks for 1 sure you can probally find a DEAL but remember you get what you pay for and if you found a DEAL on a machine thats to good to be true trust me it will cost you more in the long run. when it comes to expensive machines and tooling never buy the cheap stuff cause it will bite you in the butt in the long run. Again , I am not trying to bash anyone, whine or cry. just trying to explain the process a little better. so please dont take this wrong. and maybe shed some light on bait mold making. I hope that answers some questions with out kicking myself in the butt. Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Del, that is a great post and I think really puts it in perspective for many people. I, for one, have been to Del's shop and seen everything he is talking about. He is not lieing, lots of big equipment and I'm possitive it costs some $$ and lots of time. Del, I don't think anybody will take your post wrong and I hope you did not take mine, nor anybody else's the wrong way either. In fact, I look forward to reading more of your posts in the future that are this well thought out and informative. I'm sure you understand why people would discuss things like this. It is because we want things now. I even admitted, I am not patient enough to wait for a custom mold lol. That is just how us humans are. I know you are always running those machines, and no blame to you, but things do get backed up from time to time. It's not because you and April are slacking, it's just because you're running at full capacity. You do the right thing by puting your production molds first and custom work second. There is a market for those new designs and custom work, though, and it kind of gets put on the back burner and I think some people get frustrated. I know we talked about you getting that new machine. I hope it all works out for you and it can in turn help us impatient guys get some of the new and custom stuff People probably think you are getting rich off this and one day I truely hope you do. Your work is phenominal. Hey, I hope we all can get rich off this! I can tell people though, with the prices you charge (low) I honestly don't think you are getting rich. Guys, Del ain't driving a new Mercedes Benz. I think he does a lot of us a good service by keeping his prices low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlybass Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Del just made one of the best posts that I have ever seen on TU.Very honest and forthright. If anything he low-balled expenses and forgot a few.$15,000 to connect 3 phase,even if the wire runs over the shop. You have coolant disposal costs.Most vendors want annual(or more frequent) certifications like ISO or QS.Initial costs can easily exceed $50,000 or more.Annually about 1/5 the initial. If you think you are going to pay the bills making molds for lure crafters,your machine will be at auction soon. One thing that Del and Bob are too nice too talk about is bad customers.Business is learning that there are customers "who are not right."The old "customer is always right" has been ruined by the bad customer.You could tell them 2 week delivery at best, probably 3 and no more than 4 because your making parts for the war.While waiting he complains to his buddies about the wait and doesn't know why when he is paying $30/hr for machine time.You make $60/hr or more normally.You deliver it in 15 days and feeling generous give it to him because he has an old truck with a BASS sticker on it.He then goes and brags to his buddies how he raised hell and made you give it to him.By word of mouth one bad customer(or your mistake) can cost you 6 new customers.Via internet? 2,500 on this site.That is why I would not make molds for some.Maybe they won't either. You really can't blame someone for being too busy.Unless you are a kid talking to a parent. I have said this before,everyone is lucky to have Del and Bob making molds.They could easily be making alot more money elsewhere. Sorry guys, but I'm not going to needlessly compete with Del or Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Ryan now dont be knocking my blue chevy pick up just cause I havent washed it in 4 years and it has crooked front tires, it does pull my boat I understand where guys are coming from trust me I have been there. thats my problem with trying to make a post on something like this. I do understand that guys are saying damn 90 bucks for a mold thats crazy. or 200 bucks for a custom mold etc. perfect example we have all heard of the hammers that were made for the military at something like 1000 bucks each and I think there was like 20 made. now think about this, the hammers were for special purpose( it was explained in one of my machinest publications that I used to get a while ago). so Someone had to design the hammer, they had to prototype it, make fixturing for it run it , get it coated etc all these process's add up. However we the public see it as a hammer that cost 10-20 bucks at home depot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigZ Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Damn, thanks for giving the breakdown Del. I think a lot of these guys don't realize that it can take ~2hrs of machine time to cut a mold. Not to mention design time and setup/fixturing and expendables(cutters/coolant..etc). The cheapest machining vendor I use at work is $65 an hour and I have to hold his hand to get things done right. I have to deal with prototype to production detail every day as an engineer for GM/Toyota (NUMMI), and I see price breakdowns all day every day. People need to realize that a custom mold is gonna cost a couple hundred bucks and their lead times are going to be superceded by the "paying jobs" that keep the lights on and the chips flying in the shop. I also know for a fact that the manufacturing world is driven by exacting deadlines and meeting them; secondly, there is not a big enough market to keep someone manufacturing worm molds 40 hrs a week. Del and Bob both do this because they love to bass fish, they are not profiteering business men. They are a serious asset to our sport and hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charkins Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 I have some of Del's molds. I can not believe how well they are made. I had some jig molds custom made when I was in the lure business and it cost and arm and a leg and they were not near the quality of the molds that Del makes. After a few thousand pours, they wouldn't even close well. I tried to get some guys that were good to make some molds for me. They just laughed at me and told me that they were too busy to mess with a little project. Del's prices are very reasonable and his products are superior. His molds hold up well enough to be passed down to your great grandchildren. Cal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consenko Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hi guys, I have been reading all the information on this forum for approximately (1) year and have to say thanks to everyone, the information on this site is invaluable. I basically have learned how to pour baits from what I have learned here. I have not registered until today, I am usually a listener not a talker, but after reading this post I had to reply. I own a machine shop and do have a CNC machine, the programming software, and everything necessary to make molds. The funny thing about it is I bought the molds I use from Del. I also have a few ideas for some new baits that I would like to make. The problem is that it takes way too much time to design program and machine these, not even for myself. If Del is charging a couple hundred bucks for a custom mold, you guys should get on your knees and thank him for doing it. If someone was to ask me to build a custom mold for them, I would not even consider starting it for less than $500.00, and that would be for a very simple bait such as a stikbait. For some of the more complex baits the charge could be in the thousands. If you guys are willing to pay that much, let me know, I will make all you want, when you want. If not then I will say thanks Del and Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
