Kathleen Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 While I am fairly new to tackle crafting and tackle underground, I have been a crafter of one sort or another throughout my life. Has anyone here tried or does one currently exist, a cooperative buying group to try obtain the lowest possible prices? While I read the posts about the association forming, this would have to be separate due to IRS laws. I belong to a beading cooperative group and place orders constantly and save tons of CASH! For those of you wondering, a cooperative runs like this.... Certain buys are set up for each company, for this example, I will use Living Rubber. A host or hostess runs the buy, everyone sends their order into them (on a host created spreadsheet), the host figures the discount, and arranges larger discounts with the companies (not difficult at all). All payments plus a minimal buy fee to cover labels, bags, packaging supplies etc. (Ours are never over $5.00) , are sent to host who places orders, has order shipped to them and then repackages (if necessary) and sends to purchasers. I used living rubber as the e xample because I noticed they have a large discount on the 101+ packs of skirts. If everyone cooperative purchases at certain times, everyone same money. More money saved, more products being purchased, one can never have enough can they? I would be more than willing to help set something up if enough people are interested. Thanks for all the great posts on this site, I am learning so much! Thanks, Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elken Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I might be interested in a buy for silicone skirt pads or living rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladesandbaits Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Welcome Kathleen! (This is quick so the spelling sucks) Man I have been pondering this type set up for years.I would sure love to be involved in something like this. I have given this much thought in the past and a few of the things I will list below always send me back to square one! Please dont get me wrong as I have no idea of the common demominators with your other crafts. These are only a few. The price break at Lakeland for blades is at 1000 and 10,000 quantities The Price break at Skirts Plus- Living Rubber-Rat Trap (all for skirts) is very similar. Although I realize I am not the only one in the Custom Lure business I can only base the following conclusions to fit the lures I commonly build. 1-I use only Premium Blades from Lakeland.Never ever any thing less unless I am powder caoting the blades and then I use Worth Badger quality.BTW Beside Hildebrant Lakeland Premiums are probably the best made (JMO) I use many different sizes of Blades as well.I have to keep enough on hand to build custom orders. 2-I make many skirts that have as many as 4 colors or accents in them. For instance I usually buy at least a thousand skirts in lets say Pearl/Glimmer Blue/Chartrues/Super White/Black and so on.However,I may buy 100(because this is the min)of Hot orange/crystal black flake and they will last me a year because I am only using 3 strands at a time. Hell, there are to many others to mention but my question is how can there be a common denominator between us here and others (regarding the components we use)? I am all for it but man can you immagine how this could be governed? At the moment me and a few other lure builders attempt to pool our orders together at times to help with the min,s.I t doesn't always work out though. The main thing we try to order together is Worth swivels and Skirts(common stuff) Good subject .Maybe someone else has some ideas. BTW,what kind or type lures do you make?Or are you jus interested in setting up this network? Blades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&D Custom Lures Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I see both sides of the coin here. As Blades and Baits stated I we all use different components and I can see the only way to setup something is on a total dollar amount discount not on a per item discount but I wouldn't think Lakeland,Wourth etc. would do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basskat Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I'm smalltime, only make for myself, friends and two baitshop. I do use 300 - 500 skirts a year of different colors. Something like this could really help guys like myself buy cheaper. Common things like skirts would be relatively easy to do. Certain blades, swivels, etc... also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 That is so tough to please everybody. Like the others said most people only want a hundred or so of one thing and sometimes less. Then you go to the "thats what i ordered but not what i wanted" stuff that happens. To really make a differance you would probable need to buy it wholesale or whatever you want to call it because you get the price break for that then you get the quantity price break and now you can easily afford to buy more quantity wise. An example would be say stamina gets $20 for a 100 blades and the co-op price is $12 per hundred bu you dont have enough people to take 100 each for a 1000. You may tell them they each need to purchase 150 for $16. Its still a deal but awfully tough to please everyone all the time and then someone is kind of giving up there time for almost free. It is a great idea and I would be interested its just alot of trouble to unite a bunch of small time(just making for me) tackle builders. And ther is a resale lic fee and who knows what else. Yell if you get a plan togather go_rob_go at yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 wow! You have all given me a lot to answer. Seems like a couple of you have put a lot of thought into it It really is quite simple, I just hope I can explain it well enough! You all know that typing doesn't always convey the true message so I will just dig in and do my best! common denominators with your other crafts. Tackle making is a craft so basically there are many components that are easily transferred into this type of cooperative. We (the jewelry making group, 1000+ members), just decide to purchase as a group. We run a wire buy every month (since you can't make jewelry without it). We researched, found the best products and the best prices, created a spreadsheet, have a buy time frame, and do it. Many of the items are purchasable only in large quantities (1000's+), we break it down to the group and allow purchases by the hundred, and the host just divides it all. After the initial buy period, a note goes out to the group, about what needs to be filled. Most of the time, the item is filled, if it does not meet the minimums required, it is dropped from the buy. That is the main reason, payments are sent in until all the order is finalized, not as you place your order. We do this with 10 buys a month, you just pick and choose what you need. In the jewelry group, I would say we purchase approx. $12000. per month. While it took time to develop, the buying power allows us to compete and make extra deals with the manufacturers to give us the most for our purchasing power. The price break at Lakeland for blades is at 1000 and 10,000 quantities The Price break at Skirts Plus- Living Rubber-Rat Trap (all for skirts) is very similar. So all the blades are divide out by a reasonable quantity and split. you only need 10 people at 100 blades (or skirts, or what ever the buy is) to reach the 1000 minimum, etc. So instead of purchasing 1000 blades at the best price yourself and having to have a large amount of your capital wrapped up, you can order smaller quantities at the same discounts, and expand your inventory, which in turn can expand your business at a faster pace than otherwise available for the small or medium manufacturers or hobbyists. It gives you a better pricing edge, and allows more profit for you in the long run. BTW,what kind or type lures do you make?Or are you just interested in setting up this network Right now, I am currently making spinner baits, spinners, and starting to experiment with soft plastics. I really want to tackle lures but I am still researching this before jumping in. Tackle making components are overtaking my home! (I am sure you all in the same position). setup something is on a total dollar amount discount not on a per item discount but I wouldn't think Lakeland,Wourth etc. would do that. After some large buys (cooperative buys) you would be surprised how much the companies are willing to work with you. On my wire buys, they wine and dine us now. We also were able to establish a individual discount for those times when you need something and a buy is not on the horizon. They will give this when they see what a collective group is capable of! Something like this could really help guys like myself buy cheaper. Common things like skirts would be relatively easy to do. Certain blades, swivels, etc... also. EXACTLY! I am not saying that every item, for every individual could be offered. You cooperative buy the items that the most people are interested, driving the prices to the individual down. you would probable need to buy it wholesale This is the only way the group works. I already have numerous wholesale accounts set up. No more buying retail! someone is kind of giving up there time for almost free. Yes, this is true. The buy fee is included just to cover costs the host may incur. Packaging supplies, gas to post office. But in the long run, the amount of money saved more than makes up for it. I am probably a lucky one here. I am a stay at home mom of 3, who has a wonderful fishing hubby who supports me, 3 teenagers who help as needed, a person who doesn't have to work 9-5 and then make my business orders. The jewelry cooperative last year saved me approx. $14,000. And since I charge the going rate, that allowed an equal (maybe a little more than even) profit. So while it is work and time for free, it really isn't in the long run if you have strong business practices. I should also add, while I am a stay at home mom, I do run my custom jewelry business, PTO treasurer, church youth leader, I also have a master's in marketing and freelance occasionally! My background is in national advertising and new product marketing. Sorry so long, KATHY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlybass Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 The best way to save money is to turn your hobby into a legal business.Reference "Lower Your Taxes-Big Time!" by Sandy Botkin.The author was a senior tax lawyer for the IRS.The first chapter is "Why you would be brain dead not to start a home-based business". By the time large lots are broken into small lots and shipped, much,if not all,savings will evaporate. There are many pitfalls to creating a "buyers group" on such a small scale-and it would be small scale.Many have been stated,but one of the most important has been missed-timeliness.Will you be able to get what you want, when you want it? All of the savings that you could possibly incur,even at best case scenario,through a co-op, will not come close to the savings of a legitimate business via taxes and wholesale purchases. This does not have to entail quitting your "real job" or investing large amounts of time or money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 The best way to save money is to turn your hobby into a legal business I am a legal business. I actually have 2 home legal businesses and co-own 2 other business, so being in business, is not new to me. While a business is a great way to go, it is not for everyone. Many have tried it, decided it was not for them and give it up. I believe that a lot of people on this forum, are not legal businesses, just hobbyists and have no desire to change this. This is a personal decision and it is NOT for everyone. Why you would be brain dead not to start a home-based business". SEE ABOVE! While I am in business and love it, being in the tackle industry is not just any home business. There are many more steps, though not difficult to achieve, there is more red tape (Excise taxes, exemptions, etc), that some people would rather not take. By the time large lots are broken into small lots and shipped, much,if not all,savings will evaporate. Guess, I need this one explained to me. Will you be able to get what you want, when you want it? No it is not instant gratification. It does take planning and organization on everyone's part! will not come close to the savings of a legitimate business via taxes and wholesale purchases. Totally not true. All groups purchases are wholesale, so you get the tax breaks too, but as the buying power go up so do the discounts and lengths the wholesale companies are willing to go. (See above, the $14,000 dollars I saved is $14,000 off already wholesale pricing. Jewelry making is a expensive undertaking, don't recommend let the wife start, there would definitely be less tackle making money for you Think emeralds, rubies, etc, in the Plano organizers all over your house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlybass Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Thanks for being so condescending.I find being put in my place by vague references to "marketing background" and 4 "businesses" owned quite entertaining and refreshing.I really found the "Guess ....." comment enlightening.Just because I offered a "savings" different but not exclusive in relation to participating in a co-op.It is quite interesting to note the reference to the post about separating a co-op from an association.Seems as if that was a neat bit of info.Might want to note the author.I am sure you checked with the "group" working on the association to not double the effort or compete needlessly.Good thing I don't have a fragile ego or I would feel depressed watching 23 CNC machines run $60/hr each when I have been taken to task by a marketing guru.Members here are "needful" of a custom mold maker with short lead times.This would be a great initial accomplishment by any individual wishing to lead/establish a co-op.But you just blew the best chance that you did not know of.Nice start.Unless your last name is Debeers or Kay,then I'm toast."Now that's funny...."Thanks Larry TCG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Dear ONLYBASS, I must apologize. I in NO Way meant to seem condescending, and if what I wrote came off that way to you or others, then I sincerely apologize. I was in no way wanting to sound like that by noting some things about myself, it was merely offered out there as sort of an introduction as to who I am. I am new to this forum, haven't posted much, read lots of topics, learned lots from all on forum, and I was just putting myself out there. "Guess ....." comment enlightening. What I meant by this is please explain your comment. I know that the buying group I belong too, works. While I see no reason for the same not to work with tackle crafting industry, I also admit I haven't analyzed all to death, was just asking if such a group existed, and if anyone would be interested. separating a co-op from an association.Seems as if that was a neat bit of info. IRS 501c3 formation laws and regulations I am sure you checked with the "group" working on the association to not double the effort or compete needlessly No, I didn't check with the group. I was merely throwing the question out there, does one already exist, and testing the waters about interest. I didn't state that I was starting one, I was just asking. Of course, I would speak to the proper people if it were to come to it. I wasn't putting it out there to step on toes, just throwing it out there. Good thing I don't have a fragile ego or I would feel depressed watching 23 CNC machines run $60/hr each when I have been taken to task by a marketing guru. I don't believe I took you to task about anything. I apologize again for any misinterpretation that occurred. Members here are "needful" of a custom mold maker with short lead times. From all the posts I have read, this is true. And as it appears this is what you are doing, I wish you well and hope to do business with you, as hopefully soon I hope to get into the plastic molding. As I am not familiar with many members of this group, do you have a website or do you just make custom orders based on individuals requirements? This would be a great initial accomplishment by any individual wishing to lead/establish a co-op.But you just blew the best chance that you did not know of.Nice start. Unless your last name is Debeers or Kay,then I'm toast I don't think I want to touch this one. I apologize that you took my post wrong, but I never attacked you or made fun of what you do or who you are. Again, OnlyBass, I apologize. I apologize to any and all I may have inadvertently offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedHed Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Sounds like you have done your homework Kathleen. I would be very interested in co-op purchases. Hopefully something like this will work and those that want to participate can??. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladesandbaits Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Kathleen,your post was very interesting to me and got my attention.There are many of us here at TU that do run our luremaking as a business. There are many here that do it as a hobby.Other than post a website in a signature it is hard to tell the difference.Were just kind of low key about it because we are here for what the site has to offer and what we can offer each other. I wont disclose here the dollar (????) amount of components my business has purchased in the last 2-1/2 months but lets just say it was enough to build out 2300+ wire baits.And almost all that went out the front door of the shop.After 10 years of doing this I have pretty much whittled my stocking program and what/how/when/who and how many or $$$$$$ I purchase down about as much as possible.Even though I play the game like I should the excise tax deal in my opinion is a load of crap!!!!!! There are times that I just tell the vendor not to use my number and just pay the extra! Personally,I dont give 2 sh?ts what you are anyone else has to gain from developing a program that at the end of the day saves me and anyone else money! If you are anyone else can put something together that fits my needs/saves my company money,and with no decline in service and dependability----- I am all for it. Nathan Invited me to participate in the Tackle Association deal and i have yet to take my procrastinating rear end over there(sorry Nathan but I hope the invitation is still open) I think this idea has merrit but wonder if presenting this to the association might be a good place to start.Just an idea :idea: Blades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlybass Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Can't accept apology without giving one. I'm giving and accepting.Drive on Kathleen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 sounds like it might be worth trying afew times at least. what could it hurt? Monty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSpannTx Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 I'd be interested too Kathleen. Thanks, Noel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx202guy Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Kathleen, I would be interested. I am only a hobbiest but have done alot of research already just looking to better my personal endeavors. Might have something to offer to help everbody. By the way, if you haven't noticed, those associated with this industry aren't very bright! I have been fihsing for 20 years, associated with my dad's small business for 6 years, Bachelor's in Watershed Mgmt, own my own home with 4 rental properties. Throughout the years, I have been in some silly arguments and discussions with fisherpeople---theie brains are whack! They don't function like everybody else. They do not see the big picture of the savings (positive attitude), they only see inconveinence and time consumption or the small picture (neg. attitude). It is really ashame they aren't seeing the benefits and aren;t jumping at the chance to get this going. Let me know what comes of this. Bdue418@hotmail.com. Thanks, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladesandbaits Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 zx202guy, there are 16 replies to this thread previous to this one. Of those 16 replies 9 of them were from different members. There was a slight misunderstanding that was "aired" out quickly (like people with un-whacked brians would normally do) and topic resumed. (Qhote) "If you havne't (havn't) noticed,those associated with this industry aren't very bright"(End Quote) Well now, just exactly who are you referring to? Come on now---- it's time for you to put that watershed management degree to work here! Is that remark strickly aimed at ones who replied to this thread? Or are you speaking in general to the enitire membership here? Come on now--- I can take it.It wont be the first time I have been called a dumb A^$. Let me give you a bit of unsolicited advice here> Take a look around here and get an idea of the company you are keeping.Very seldom do you see anyone seperate themself from the crowd here.Be it hobbyiest, or "those associated with this industry"in a more business like way. But with your 5 post since September it is obvious that you have done your research. Good Day Blades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 I may be 'whacked' from standing on the flippin deck of a boat too long in the sun without a hat on . . . . BUT I can still add up the figures to see the bottom line and know when I have spent too much as well as saved some $$$$. So Kathleen, all I can say to you is . . . . YOU GO GIRL !!!! I'm in. George Reeves H&P Tackle Welch, OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlybass Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 I am wacked.It happened in Iraq.Thats why I build tackle and fish.It helps to un-wack me for awhile.I've ate Benning clay too,thanks Blades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
