kahawai Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 hi, i'm thinking of starting making some lures in foam and have done a search on the forum and looked at the tutorials. however i've still got a couple of questions which i'd like to pose to the foam experts- 1. how well does foam reproduce detail? does the lure have to be smooth or can there be carved mouth/gills or scale texture? my worry is that the foam will flake/break or get stuck to the mould. 2. can 16lb foam hold a screw in eye securely? anyone tried this for heavy duty baits for musky and pike? or perhaps someone has done a pull test? 3. whats the best mould material? is there a something cheaper than RTV silicone? any experience casting foam into moldmax or other smooth-on rubbers? 4. any other advice greatly appreciated. regards Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I can help out on some of the questions. 1. Carved mouth and details are fine as long as you don't create a mold that will cause the lure to "lock" itself. Essentially nothing can create an undercut. I have never had foam break or flake. I have weighted too long to demold and had to force it out. Silicone most likely will be more forgiving but I still use the low tech stuff. 2. I only use through wire construction on my foamies. I recall some have set screw eyes with devcon with no problems. I just find for about the same amount of effort (maybe less) I can bend a through wire harness. 3. I have used Durhams Rock Puddy but mainly bondo to create my molds. Haven't ventured into the RTV although that is probably the best way to go. I will most likely try it out soon. 4. Take time making the mold and don't rush things. Venting is often needed to eliminate air pockets in some areas. Coating the mold in these difficult areas (like recessed sockets for eyes) before filling the one half, reduces blemishes a lot. I find vasoline brushed on straight with a child's paint brush works easily for a demolding agent. In my experience the most frustrating thing about foamies is the surface prep time needed to get a surface ready for paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahawai Posted January 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 hi travis, Thanks for the generous advice! i can't wait to give it a go. will post pictures when i do manage to make the baits! regards Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Only buy as much foam as you'll use in a 3 week period as that is appx the shelf life of opened foam. After that, it begins to lose its' properties. Please Don't ask how I found that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Brush Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Hey guys, foam will cast and release from RTV no problem. Do not use any petrolium products as release agents with RTV it will deteriorate your molds quickly. The 3 lures in the pic are from RTV molds. The pink one is a 5lb foam test for details. Came out great. http://www.tackleunderground.com/board/download.php?id=1779 5lb is too weak. I've tried 15lb foam-it since. The 15lb also picks up the details and releases just fine however it has a stronger expansion and will push more on the mold walls. RTV is very supple and will distort if clamped too tightly. I'd recommend a mold support that you can clamp tight that wont distort the mold. Make the side supports a little shorter than the mold so it will seal the mold tightly. Also use an RTV with a high shore hardness. I've used moldmax 30 and still get some seamline flash. I think MM40 with the wood support shell will work better though I've not tried it yet. The support shell will help clamp the mold evenly and keep the blank in form without distortion. Tight Lines, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Shawn, did you escape or did someone pay he ransom? It looks as if the foam is serving your needs, well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Brush Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 LOL Husky I'm shakin it boss! I'm shakin it! Workin a proto and preppin mold boxes here. I'm getting the idea that salmo could possibly be using aluminum molds that are bolted shut on hydruallic presses and using corn starch as a release agent. The presses would pull evenly while demolding and cornstarch protects the aluminum. I've got RTV to pour and will try the support shells on this batch of molds. I've also got "pharmacutical grade corn starch" to try in the molds. It's very fine and sticks to smooth surfaces. Currently setting up a table with enough molds and harnesses to pour a full kit of featherlite ina day and will compare both in a side by side RTV mold test. Kahawai your foamies look fantastic. are they wired thru? and would you trust screw eyes on foam-it 15? They are 16 gauge brass wire harnesses. I use a nail jig to tie them. Would I trust an eyescrew in foam? Yes and no... for bass and pike lures yes. The foam is made up of chemicals similar to epoxy glue and will bond well with the screw. For larger game fish like stripers and musky the screw alone might not be enough. A makeshift flat washer on the screw could work as a strong anchor that should be tuff enough. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskydan666 Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Hi,I made my mold whit mold max 40 but dident tryed it yet,the wood sheel is a good idea!!I will do that before molding some! I am sending a pic of me mold.Cheers.muskydan666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrydabassman Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Awesome job on those foamies!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vytautas Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Glad to hear that we have another foamie guy here Yes, salmo definitely are using aluminum molds. But I do not understand what do you mean by "corn starch"? I think if aluminum mold is polished enough, they could be used without release agent, because foam do not stick to glass-smooth surfaces Shawn, you should try polyester fiberglass resin instead of RTV. You can put this mold in to the press, so seamline flash is very minimal vy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vytautas Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 here is the photo of seamline I am getting from fiberglass resin mold: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savacs Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Hy there vytautas! U mean just the resin used for fiberglass, or with the fibers as well? I just procured some resin, and that's why i ask. I'm trying for some days to find a RTV source here in my country, but with no results for now. So i have to try some alternative materials until that time comes. Even though i wouldn't want to try the car kit stuff. I want to be sure i will be able to demold heavily detailed baits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vytautas Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 savacs, I use resin only, bought it from car tuning company. It is very similar to this one used here: http://www.tackleunderground.com/board/kb.php?mode=article&k=24 smells like hell, not very friendly to some plastics, but works fine for me Yeaa, here in Ltihuania there is also difficulties finding stuff like this. Try this source for RTV and foams: www.kaupo.de - they are very helpful guys vy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savacs Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I'll be looking for some time for a RTV source arround here. That's a last resource. How does the demolding go vith those molds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Brush Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Outstanding seamline Vy. The foam cells look like they are fully closed. Corn starch has many uses. It's starch extracted from corn. It has the consistency of baking flour but is sticky. It's used in push molds as a release agent as it sticks well to a smooth surface but releases to the castings. It could aid the foam to form a good skin and release better from the aluminum. You might want to try it in your poly molds. http://www.coastalscents.com/cfwebstore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=275 Dan, That's a great mold. I noticed you left out harness mounts. Is that to use screws instead of a thru wire? If so what size screws you using? Sweet lookin bait. Post pics when you get a few cast. Dan I just looked again at your mold and the harness mounts look to be laid on their sides? Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Brush Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Savacs, Here's a few links to some older featherlite research vids. Foam will release the same way. http://www.artbrushlabs.com/lures/files/featherlite/demold.htm http://www.artbrushlabs.com/lures/files/featherlite/finshed_cast.htm Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskydan666 Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 Hi Shawn,No my harness mounts are not a side!!!It's juste that i made them a little different then yours!I made them whit some little anchor usuly used to hold shelf(ikea style)el chipo!!!ina tv furniture!!! :-D Cheers and thank's for your nice tutorial on mold making,It help me a lot to make my first mold!!! muskydan666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Brush Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Dan, Glad the tutorial came in handy That's cool using shelf mounts. Let us know how your first casts come out and show off them lures! Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskydan666 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Hi Shawn,I made my first cast today! Not very nice!!the mold pop open a few seconds after pouring!! but the second one is very nice,a few bubbles but nothing to worry about!! I'm sending some pics of the lure!! Cheers,muskydan666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Brush Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Dan, You've got to be drunk with power right about now LOL :grin: It's a great feelin that first batch of lures . Did you make a box support for clamping the mold? Was there any "flash" on the seamline? Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskydan666 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 hi Shawn,your right I'm drunk whit power right now!!!!! :-D and I'm also anxions to know that it will do in water! This lure was very good made of wood but maybe not made of foam????? I'll know when I'll found a pool to try it!?or I'll wait till spring!but that's not my best option!by the way!????what's your opinion on that??your lure must be made out of wood before making them in foam!??did they work nice or not after switching to foam???I hope it will! : : because it cost a lot of time and a lot of $$$ to!!!! Cheers and another thank's for your help!Dan ps:im sending a pic of the bubble on the lure so you can help me out whit that problem???what can I do to avoid that???thank's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskydan666 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Ho and forgot!!!a very small flash line on the lure!!! :grin: mostly on the top end of it!and by the way excuse my english I'm used to speak french!!! so i'm doing my best whit english!my dad is english so i'm not that bad speaking but writing is a bit tought!!!!! cheers.Dan ps:That site rock's!!!!!!it's the best thing that I've found this year!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vytautas Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Hey Dan, I get such bubbles when there is too hot in my working place. Foam-it is have to be poured at minimum 30C temp, but sometimes I heat up too much vy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskydan666 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Thank's for the infos!!!???I dident know about the minimal temp to pour polyurethane bait's???? I'll try to poured the next ones at a temp of minimum 30 degres !was about 22 degres when I pour them today!!! cheers,Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Brush Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Vy you're absolutley right about temperature affecting the foam. The warmer the room the more the foam will expand. More expansion causes larger undesired foam bubbles. Dan, looking at the bubble photo and comparing it to the mold it looks as if those bubbles are getting trapped at the highest point in the mold. A small vent placed between the first and second keys to the right of the sprue could allow them to escape. If you decide to vent there you'll probably only need to do it to one side of the mold. Just enough to allow the bubbles to escape. http://www.tackleunderground.com/board/download.php?id=1995 Yes the lures should perform well in wood or plastic first. Foam will replicate cedar or balsa action without any problems. You should be confident in your lures performance before even planning a mold. Your lure shouldn't be a problem as long as your diving bills and ballasts are consistant. You'll want to get them into a pool soon to get an idea of what they are doing before you start casting a bunch. You can float test in your tub to check your weighting. Are they sitting well in the water? If the back barely breaks the surface of the water the lure will be a slow riser. Should be a suspender in colder waters. Float testing will help you guage the first few test casts. When it looks good in float tests then cast a few for when the ice is thawed. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
