shaggy Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 I am looking for some help. I have come up with a great new idea for a lure, and am not sure how to go about getting it out. The lure is somewhat simple to make, but it would be very easy to copy. I have only been pouring for a few days now and my skill level is not yet up to par. I am afraid that when I get enough made, that are up to my quality standards, and start selling them, others who can produce a lot more will steal my thunder. Should I try and go to a bigger company with my idea, or take on a partner who is more experienced to help. I am looking for some ideas. I am sure that most of the people reading this have heard this from many new comers, but this is a great idea. Any help in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 Well, to protect yourself it will require a patent. From the research I have done, a patnet for a worm design is going to be EXTREMELY difficult. I have something I am debating whether or not to patent, too. I'ts basically a matter if I want to invest money just to try and get a patent, then it is a matter of if the payback is worth it. A patent is around $15K from the research I did. You have to sell a shi* load of worms to just break even on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted January 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 I don't really want to go the patent route because it is so expensive to fight the inevetable, someone will steel the idea. All it takes is a slight change in your design and you lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe S. Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Just go with the flow, If it is that good of an idea and catches fish and you market it well enough you should sell them, Look at all the other co's out there yammamoto, RI, etc. I'm sure there still selling plenty of baits even though there are a lot of people making knock offs for cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted January 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 That's a good point Joe. I was thinking of just putting some on EBAY and seeing what would happen. Since I am the only person who has actually seen or used my lure, maybe no one will even want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Don't forget you can't create a market for a product no one has seen or used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungeonhawk5 Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 all new designs have to start somewhere beavers were new, twister tails were new at some point... everything started somewhere.. i have to think it would be hard though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Just because you haven't seen something out on the market doesn't mean it hasn't been patented or made before. Many patent an idea to license it to another company or wait until somebody uses their patented idea and then takes them to task. I recently had a patent search done and it was not that expensive. The individual that helped me gave me a vast amount of other information as well as positive results on my search. Patenting an idea will cost well over $30,000 and defending your patent can start out at $750,000. If you have a good idea, there are a few other ways to protect parts of it as in trademarking the name, copyrighting directions on use, etc. My advice would be to talk with someone that is knowlegable as you actually may have something worth while. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted January 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 I am sure that this lure has never been patented before. I think what I am going to do, is just make up about 1 or 2 hundred and see how they sell in the local stores. I have also been talking with another company about producing them for me, if the demand gets high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Hmmm...All the research I found indicates a patent should run you somewhere between $5000-$7000....You guys are saying $15,000-$30,000!!!??? Is that price for your basic fishing lure patent? or a highly sophisticated machine patent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 all new designs have to start somewhere beavers were new, twister tails were new at some point... everything started somewhere.. i have to think it would be hard though I could be wrong, but if beavers and twisters were/are patented, they are only protected under a design patent...Which means that all you need to do is change one tiny aspect of the lure (such as raise/indent a portion of the body ) and you now have a "new design", in the eyes of the law. Design patents, IMO are definitely a waste of money...However if your lure qualifies for a Utility patent....Then your in good shape. Utility patents deal with a specific component/components of a lure...These components must be unobvious to someone skilled in the art, furthermore they must produce "new and unexpected results"...I've tried many times to get past the "new and unexpected results" hurdle....and it isn't easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 From the lawyers I have spoken with, it is about $15K minimum. If you are researching online, they are probably not telling you a lot of the hidden fees. When I actually spoke with some lawyers, I understood more how it all works. You can just open the phone book at look for patent lawyers and talk to them on the phone about typical costs. Many of them have a low fee for a consultation. When they turn the patent in, it is almost 100% likely they are going to deny it, at least some portion of it. They will send it back with input on what they might patent and you will need to make changes/concessions. This requires your lawyer to do work and they charge a lot of money per hour (I forget exactly how much, but $100s per hour). It is likely it may even be sent back again, too, but it's been a while since I have spoken with somebody I forget exactly all the steps. And after all this, there is no guarantee that you get the patent and the lawyers sure aren't going to give you any money back. Basically, this one lawyer told me like it is...they (the gov) assume NOT give you a patent and to NOT let you have a monopoly. They would rather let everybody do what you are doing. This is why it is so costly and difficult. Now, if you have the knowhow to do it on your own, you can certainly save a lot of money and it is probably worth it. Also, I have been told that you cannot patent something that mimics nature. This is why just about every lure design you see is not patented. I am almost positive that Sweet Beavers are not patented. You can patent certain parts of your design such a new, innovative tail design that affects the swimming motion of the swimbait and things like that, I think. If you are hearing something different, please fill me in. I, too, have something I am thinking of patenting. Right now, though, with the research I have done...it's just not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 I would highly recommend you at least talk with someone who has successfully files many patents IN THE FISHING INDUSTRY!!! A person that looks at fishing stuff all day, every day, knows what to look for and where. Try emailing Rodney Long a.k.a rockhopper (a TU member) rdlong@charter.net for further info. He did a patent search for me recently. He patented the StandOut hooks everybody is using for drop shotting now along with many other fishing related products. He will shoot you straight and knows many people in the "business". He is not a lawyer though.. Jim O'Connor PS You can tell him I referred you or that you are from TU... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 no body is going to want to pay you any real money for your idea. You cant make any money pouring one at a a time, your labor will kill you along with the cost of equipment. You can try going in with some one else already in business,CONTRACT IN WRITING. It is to expensive to patent but cheaper to copywrite or trademark through a lawyer. All anyone needs to do is make slight changes to your design and theres nothing you can do. To do it your self you probable need 2 or 3 molds that hold about 10-20 lures each filled with 1 pour. 1 pour equils 20 lures and you move on to the next mold. The smaller the lures are the more you put in a mold. an idea would be to make the first mold out of aluminum say hopefully for about $200. then pour or inject hard plasic into that mold to make a master and then make some plastic molds using the new hard master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted January 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Thats what I would like to do, but I cannot seem to get any reply back on a custome mold. A friend of mine has an uncle that is a cnc operator and I think I will see what he can do. I made a mold out of plaster and it sucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 I made a mold out of plaster and it sucked Try using bondo resin (availible @ home depot) along with some aluminum pans...Should get 3-5 molds per $20 can....Stuff works great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 I have a guy that did one for me, go_rob_go at yahoo.com also del-mart molds-bobs tackle shack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted January 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Bondo will be my next try. How well does bondo work with soft plastic? I was reading some of the tutorials on the subject, and did not see the bondo soft plastic in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmik26 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 I am right there with you shaggy. I had a single cavity custom mold made and the bait looks great. Right now I am having a 15 cavity mold made by a close friend. Del makes great molds but it takes to long, I understand his explanation and hopefully he understands ours, we can't wait one year for a mold. People will find other ways, I knew a guy that paid $1000 at a college for a 6 month course, learned how to run the machines, cut all his molds, and utilized the schools facilities. Now he is making tons of money injecting plastic gears. Utilize whatever connections you have shaggy, this will keep you above the rest. As far as a patent I agree with ghostbaits. Change one little thing and there it is, most of us don't have that type of money for lawyer fees to defend so your screwed. They way I look at it, if someone copies it, I won't have to make it. That equals more time fishing........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Guys...your real goal with a patent could be to LICENSE the idea to a big company and let them make, market, sell, etc. your idea. They just send you a check every month!!!! If you can make your product, you obviously can make more $$$$ but you also inherit all the headaches as well!!! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungeonhawk5 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 jim, happened to receive a package yet? im anxiousely awaiting your feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted February 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Well well well, I got the new bass pro shop mag today and my awsome lure that I have been making is in there. Only some other company is making it for Bass Pro and not me. Oh well, on to the next great idea I guess. :idea: At least I wont have to worry about the patent anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungeonhawk5 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 now that its out there, mind sharing what it is? id be curious to see something you developed even if someone did it at the same time... im interested to see your concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 what page and what does bass pro call it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmik26 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 I would be interested also, check out the new bass pro beaver bug, sweet bait.... Sorry to hear about your lure design being produced already shaggy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
