jmik26 Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 crawchuck - the plastic that is being discussed is Calhouns, which should be premixed and a no brainer to pour. I have purchased and poured 3 separate 1 gallon jugs that poured fine but the white colors turned yellow and the colored baits faded when put in water over night. According to Bradshaw they are adding UV protectant in there plastic now to avoid future situations like this. Still does help out when you got 1000 - 1500 senkos already poured My last purchased was a 2.5 gallon jug that I guess turns out to not have enough softner in it. I have tried everything to get this 2.5 gallons of plastic to pour and it always seems to cap off my senko molds, ie pouring like cream corn. I have took the extreme and put 1/2 cup of softner and 1/2 cup of plastic and it still has lumps in it. Heated to temps from 300- 525 :oops: and still has lumps. Right now I can get like 2 senkos out of 10 attempts and even with those they turn a yellow color with whites and colored baits fade in water. Knowing this I would feel bad even trying to sell this, besides I have burned through 1.5 gallons trying to make a combination that would work with no luck Thanks for the offer though.... Besides Del might get around to sending me that return address sometime this year Right now I am on my 2nd 5 gallon bucket of lurecraft and knock on wood no problems Its nice getting a product that I can just use and don't have to experiment with or get on a forum and argue with sellers on why its bad I was more or less interested in the changes that Calhouns made to there plastic to eliminate the problems has made a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 the colored baits faded when put in water over night. According to Bradshaw they are adding UV protectant in there plastic now to avoid future situations like this. Still does help out when you got 1000 - 1500 senkos already poured Keeping your senkos in water overnight is likely going to bleach out any of them, no matter who's plastic you are using. The salt will do it. Also, water has nothing to do with UV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmik26 Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I put Zoom, Bass Pro, Strike King, YUM, Yamamoto, Lurecraft, MF, Calhouns all in a tank to test the action and study the baits. When I was done I just taped the line to the side of the tank and left them hanging in the water. The next morning I came out and they all looked good except the Calhouns and Bass pro, the black had turned to a dull grey I'm not a chemist but I can tell you what I saw, try it for yourself. 3 months worth of hard work and 100's of dollars down the drain. The worst part is losing a local bait shop selling my lure and being told to take the rest out of his store Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsryno Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I'd really recommend testing some sticks without the salt in them. Just put on a jighead or something and see what happens. This way you can see if it is the salt you are using. Maybe you are using iodized salt or something and they are not. ...just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmik26 Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Same lure type, salt, colors and glitter were used in MF, Lurecraft, and Calhouns. Only Calhouns faded colors : If you use Calhouns, take a lure and put it in a glass of water over night, I would be interested if the same happens for you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I have been using Calhouns plastic for 3 years now, at first buying 5 gal from Del and April; then buying direct in 55 gal drums. I have not had a major problem with the product. I do not experience fading or changes in color. There are things you have to watch when using any plastic such as heat and duration. I'm not a chemist, but maybe certain combinations of different qualities of pigments(color) might cause the same effect. I have also known some glitters to bleed at certain temps that were fine for the plastic.(red and copper) I'm not saying that you are causing the problem, I'm simply stating my experiences with the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 jmik26, What you've experienced with Calhouns plastisol is pretty hard to believe. A month in the bottom of the boat in a wet bag will usually do the colors in, but not overnight in a tank. That said, plastisol is not an exact science. The resin part, which looks like a very fine powder, is actually very small pieces of vinyl similar to what we know as sewer pipe, encased in some kind of cover, kinda like an M-M candy. The cover is to keep it from going into "solution" until it is heated. Those particles not have to have the cover stripped, and be lubricated molecularly so they have the characteristics we all recognize is a good fishing lure. That's the plastisizer thing. This, of course, is greatly oversimplified, but I'm trying to paint the picture in common terms. There are hundreds of available resins, and hundreds of plastisizers also. There are additives for just about anything you want to change, and they all seem to interact with each other, more often governed by Murphey's law than any other scientific principle. (Murphey supercedes all other scientific law, it seems.) To make things worse, resins and other ingredients come and go off the market, and change price in ways that make them economical or not. The trick is to make a product in this wild game that is reasonably consistant. I don't think any manufacturer would release a product that is so unpredictable that it would drive you nuts like that. In my testing, I have found that storage, and especially contamination of a sample can have some pretty strange effects. I did have a batch corn up on me once. It was stored too warm (on purpose, I was testing) for a couple of weeks, then the hard cake on the bottom was aggressively stirred in. It looked good, but didn't cook up worth a darn. I'm not saying you did this, but I am saying that handling, storage, and possibly a few drops of something that caused the resin to agglomerate (stick together) over time accidentally introduced could have caused the trouble. I used to train field engineers to work on mainframe computers. The hardest thing I had to teach them was that if you walk up to a running machine and do something to it, and now it doesn't work; what you did to it is what broke it. Go over your work carefully before you try to run diagnostics or call for support. If hundreds of people are using a product successfully, and one or two are having trouble, it's probably not the product, but the procedure. The trick is to figure out what went wrong. Hopefully the information is then shared here so the rest of us don't fall into the same hole accidentally. Hope it helps, jm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Speaking to the original topic, PLASTIC TURNING YELLOW. Yellowing is usually the first stage of decomposition of some component of the plastisol, on the way to blackening. I have put a bunch of samples in a precision oven for a period of time, and had some samples get slightly yellow, and others completely black in the same conditions. I think that once the decomposition starts, the products of that decomposition seem to speed up the demise of the rest of the batch. That's just an anecdotal observation, but maybe helpful. So what is causing the problem? The formula may have changed, and it yellows at a lower temp. The process may have changed, where the temp is now higher. The process may have changed, where the time heated is longer. A new additive, scent or color, might be doing the Murphey thing. A new additive interferes with the basic formula, lubrication, etc. The moon phase is different. (just kidding) Well, what we have to do is to keep good notes, so that when something goes wrong, we can retreat to a known point, and venture out from there. Anecdotal evidence is not scientifically definitive, but it is very userful in pointing us in the right direction. You have to be able to repeat the effect to prove what caused it. Putting two samples from different shipments through exactly the same process with different results would meet that requirement. It still might not be the complete solution. More than one item from the list above could be happening, like a new additive seems to work well until the formula changes. hope it helps jm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmik26 Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 thanks jm- this was a excellent explanation. I have a electrical engineering degree from Purdue and generally I am very meticulous about procedures and testing. I used to maintain PBX's so I can sympathize, I have seen oc12 fiber ring go hay wire because people didn't follow procedures, thats a bad day! Back to the topic - plastic turning yellow - maybe your right, maybe its a bad batch of pearl powder thats causing it to turn yellow, maybe moisture built up in the bottle from being shipped from Texas heat to Chicago cold. My thing is, I haven't had ANY problems with Lurecraft and no problems with lumps in previous calhoun purchases using the same procedure. There is almost no doubt in my mind I had a bad batch of Calhouns, but that was money down the drain I have not had any compensation! Hell, Robert from MF sent me a sample and called me two weeks later to see if I liked it, thats customer service. I was hoping that someone would of posted " I had the same problem, just add this and it will be ok". Believe me when I say I tried everything, I will put a dark color bait in a glass of water tonight and post the pics..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Jmik26 Did you ever figure this one out? It's been a couple of weeks and I'm dying of curiosity. See what came out of Jim's whine about M-F plastic smelling. jm I was hoping that someone would of posted " I had the same problem, just add this and it will be ok". Believe me when I say I tried everything, I will put a dark color bait in a glass of water tonight and post the pics..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Quote: See what came out of Jim's whine about M-F plastic smelling. jm Whine is such a harsh word John !!! I was just curious more than anything. Seems like most have a smell to their M-F. As you were pointing out, there are so many variables you have to be diligent when you have issues come up. More than likely, it is operator error!!!! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senkosam Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 M-F still stinks (smell-wise that is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Bass Baits Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I had a gallon of Cal, and got a pint of M-F, I do not smell the M-F but I sure smell the cal plastic, I got sick the first day I used it. Went out and purchased a exhust fan the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmik26 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 I figured it out, its not worth the argument anymore! I still stand by my posts! People will find out what I am talking about the hard way. If you follow the site close there are more and more people realizing it. I thought I could let other people learn from my mistakes but some people were not interested in hearing it, others took there notes and compared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
