Senko price go up everywhere??

[IH8POACHERS2]

Hey Del what gives, you sound like your in bed with Yamamoto. I thought you were in business to help us little guys out not be a sellout to the Big guys. Do you actually think Gary started off with millions. no he started off in his friggin garage just like all of us had to do. after you get things going for a while then you maybe able to buy all of the millions and millions of dollars worth of stuff your refering to. Everbody had to start somewhere so if your in bed with him then stay under the covers will ya and stop pissing on my cherrios. Senkos are way overpriced and if people would stop buying them he"d have to come down. Just like people should do to you for raising you mold prices by 20 % if nobody buys your molds then you wouldnt have much choice now would ya or you could go out of business. cause your plastic wont keep ya a float.

[jmik26]

Del, you don't even have confidence in the stiks you pour for yourself made from the molds you cut yourself WOW

[Senkosam]

Del, you are right on the main points:

1. the consumer determines the worth (price) of a product (it's called something in macroeconomic jargon)

2. the lesser sales of an alternate product, may have nothing to do with reality (the cost of materials, workmanship, design)

3. Gary is a swell guy (I'll take your word for it)

But,

1.Gary Y has done miserably on his own baits in many tournaments and the only award he got last year was for most improved. His Japenese pro counterparts also don't use Senkos to any great extent.

2. Most BASS opens have not been won with Senkos, if they were ever even used. KVD doesn't even fish them in tournaments to the extent he fishes other lures.

3. We are not comparing apples to oranges. Plastic, softener and salt. That's it! Tiki's suck in my opinion and comparing them to Senkos is like comparing apples to oranges! lol Even the Comida has a better action and the Comida is half the price of the Senko with a very comparable action.

4. I would guess that most anglers do not do the tournament thing and just because some anglers win money on Senkos's doesn't mean the average Joe should blow 70 cents a worm, no matter how it's rigged. For me, my style dictates that I use the horizontal drop infrequently and the vertical jerk far more, to cover a lot more water. If I need to go after fish in deeper water, I'll use a dropshot rig with finesse bait. Price tag of either bait .... 30 cents or less off the rack; a nichel if I make them myself.

Do I care if I'm not throwing the best bait ever made? First of all, that's a confidence thing and I've done better using other lures in the shallow lakes I fish. Second, to believe that Senkos are the best soft plastic lure ever made indicates a fixation with one lure and a limitation on the part of the angler (my opinion and experience having fished with many anglers).

I'm glad for Yamamoto or any company that can sell high priced, quality products. Would I buy a Lexus? Not if I could buy two Toyota's or two Accura's for the same price! Am I just settling for a lesser product? No way.

[Delw]

IH8POACHERS2

Not in bed with yamy at all, would eb nice ot have that kinda money though. I know he worked hard for it. and he still does.

If I remeber correctly his bait business he finacned through his beef business, he had some good start up money.

Rememer we all cant contol our prices we buy if they have increase's we have to increase. We being bait guys.

I am kinda different than most, If it works I buy it no matter what the cost.

I have a few bags of craw dads here from river@sea bait company.

I paid 6 bucks per bag on sale theres only 4 in a bag and your complaning about yamys prices LOL This is one bait I wish I could make, but not having an injector I couldnt do it.

That being said I have been eye balling one of those zorn injection machines, very tempting.

Jmk

I use all my own baits and then a few others when using soft plastics, sometimes I have confidence in certain colors and certain types that I just dont have the time to make.

I usually get ready for the next days tourny at 10pm-12pm at night due to I am a very busy guy. If I dont have a chance to pour my own baits I buy them. lots of them I buy from my customers.

BTW I used to fish 4-6 times a week so that and working kinda makes it hard to pour some times.....

I am not a big senko /stick bait fishermen. I mainly throw blades, rio ricos and spinner baits, jigs and dropshot. however fishing tournys there are sometimes when those baits just dont work and something else might work better.

I do use my stiks for suspended fish at 40-60 feet by adding double salt so they get down there.

heres a little one I caught on a pink Stik 9.8lbs

we were bed fishing and was running across the cut behind the guy next to the tree. I needed to get some slack out of the flipping stik That my son was using for bedfishing. I zinged it out there and ran the TM to let most line out . this fish hit the bait in 25 feet of water

Since then the pink stik has been one of my confidence baits for prespawn

Jmik is there anythign else youwould like to know?

[Senkosam]

Very cute kids (they must take after April); nice bass! You proved my point. You can catch fish on plastics that you know can catch fish- the pink worm being one of them, made with your own hands and to your specifications.

When I sell lures to people, I give them the following choices:

1. Hard nose plastic (I came up with the concept over a year ago and demonstrate it on a Lunkerville.com tv show)

2. softness (three kinds)

3. salt content

4. color

Are they superior baits? Depends on what the customer wants as far as their specialty uses and do I dare say it? Yea.... better than Senkos for the uses they need the bait for, just like your pink stick. (Don't mean that in a Brokeback Mountain sort of way.)

[jmik26]

ya, were did you get your scale cause that ain't 9.8lbs

[bassn1]

Funny this topic came up, Last week I was in Gander Mountain in Fargo and they were stocking the shelves with Kinami's. The clerk told me they were not getting any more Seiko's because they weren't selling. But...Fargo ain't exactly the bass capitol of the world either.....

[Delw]

Frank.

LOL at the bronzeback thing.

My all time favorite dropshot bait is PINK, they flat out kick butt and put quanity and quality in the boat.

That being said I also have a pink spinner baits( that I bought from a tu member) and pink jigs and even one pink rio rico.

Have you seen the rapala x raps, that pinkish one is killer out here.

JMK ,you know somehow I figured you would say something like that but since you seem to know everything maybe you can tell me what kinda scale I am holding.

Thats my fihsing partner and his kid in the background.

[jmik26]

Not sure what type of scale it is but you should have it calibrated if that says 9.8lbs

[millsryno]

WOW! You guys are too much. LOL.

I'm in sales in marketing in my real life job so I get a real kick out of these discussions. I am GLAD that Senko sells his baits for that much. It is the American system working. Good ol' supply and demand. All this will do is to allow us little guys to raise our prices a little or bring us more business because not everybody is going to pay more for his sticks.

Is a top of the line Mercedes really worth $100K more than a Chrysler Sebring? Is the leather they put in there really THAT much better? Do the top of the line Ranger boats priced out at $50K really have $30K more in parts than my $20K Stratos? I don't think so.

Gouging? That is not gouging. It's simply marketing. Gouging is when the gas stations all raise their prices for no reason other than to make more money. The consumers can't get it anywhere else, so they are getting gouged. Senkos are not the only stick bait out there, so how are they gouging? You don't like the price, there are alternatives. Now if all stick baits raised their prices to $6.49, we can talk about gouging. Most stores can't keep these things on the shelves. The demand was already higher than the supply. When this happens, you raise retail prices. Throw in the fact that costs for just about any bulk material out there has gone through the roof and it's a no brainer. And trust me, his costs have risen tremendously.

Business are out to make a certain margin on their products, not a set profit $. If they are costing him $1.50 to make a pack and he sells them to the stores for $4.50, he is making 67% margins. If his raw material costs raise and raise the cost of his baits to $1.75, well he is not going to settle for $4.50 per pack anymore. Heck he is not even going to settle for a $3.00 per pack profit because that would lower his margins. Instead, with a $.25 per pack increased cost, he is going to charge $.75 extra to cover his margins. Now instead of selling them to the stores for $4.50, he is going to sell them for $5.25. Every company on Wall Street operates this way, too. They are in it for the return on the investment. If he invests X dollars, he expects 2 times X in profits. Simply as that. That is just business.

[CrawChuck]

I figure it's pretty much like the night before the tournament when everybody has prefished and ya know everybody is whispering about this and that...befor ya know it everybody runs to Wal Mart to buy "the" color or "the" bait that so-and-so said they were hitting. I don't know about you guys but I have the confidence in my own lures to fish them regardless of talk and hype.

I believe every lure is an attempt to mimick something in nature a bass would eat. So what do bass eat? Fish, frogs, craws, snakes, birds, mice, lizards and who knows what else! My motto is make it look as real as real can get and then make it act natural. Some might call me crazy cause I don't own ten tackle bags full of every lure under the sun but I believe as I feel every lure maker ought to...my lures are good enough for me, why use anything else?

I'm sure all the high priced lures catch fish or they wouldn't be selling. I wonder though if our homemade baits were dropped in the right "place" in the right "way" at the right "time" if they wouldn't be just as effective. Alot has to be said for the ability to locate fish and presentation of any given lure.

I'll not pay for any lure as long as I have the ability to make my own. Just me

[nova]

Ya know what I don't understand? I don't understand why certain members are using this thread as a personal attack on another member. I thought that we were here as friends who haven't met, learning from each other.

Let's not this thread get out of hand as well.

[charkins]

jmik26, you and del need to get a room and get this love hate relationship or pissin contest over with. I mean give it a break.

Cal

[alsworms]

I have always felt that Yamamoto's senkos are WAY overpriced, but like Nova said......if you don't like the price, don't buy it! Gary must be doing something right. Our shelves are stocked with senkos one week, then empty the next. I don't think he'd have a hard time selling those things if they were 20 bucks a pack.

Having said that, one of the great things about living is this wonderful country is that we have the freedom to set our own price for our products. Think of it this way.......

do you really think Alex Rodriguez is worth 30 million a year to play baseball? I don't think ANYONE should make that kinda money to hit a ball. But he puts people in the seats. If people are willing to pay 10 bucks for a hot dog and 8 bucks for a beer just to watch A-Rod play baseball, why shouldn't someone like Yamamoto charge 7 bucks for a pack of baits??

Just my opinion. Doesn't mean I'll buy his products at those prices. :grin:

and BTW.......Charkins and Nova are right. Let's keep this thread respectful.

*giving it a little more time to see how it goes*

[charkins]

CrawChunk, I am with you. If I can make it, that is what I am going to fish with. Then if the lure doesn't catch fish or doesn't suit me, it is my own fault.

Cal

[Richard Prager]

I don't care how much Senko's go up. To tell you the truth if he can get it, then he deserves it. I've never fished one in my life. I've always used BPS Sticko's until I recently ordered some of Del's molds as well as Bob's which are both awesome. I live in Florida and mainly fish the Everglades and Lake Okeechobee. I use a little SenkoSam's sugar flakes (for the sticks only)if I need to or nothing at all but the weight of the hook since I'm fishing 1-4 feet of water. I can vary the color/glitter combinations to give the fish a little something new. That's working out great and is proving to be just as successful! My toads work as well if not better than Zoom's. My worms and grubs (no salt or flakes) rigged on a JP Dockslinger will stand straight up off the bottom instead of laying unseen in the muck. All this I've learned on this forum and just want to say thanks to all who have been so helpful as well as unselfish in sharing their tips and tricks that I know took a long time to master.

I can even tune into the soap opera between the two of you (no need to mention names) which is a tit for tat type of thing. I tune in with my morning coffee and say goodnight............Hey, maybe we'll see you on The family Feud?

[pourboyplastics]

Supply and Demand and that's it! There is a demand at $6.49 and they fly off the shelves, nothing wrong with that.

Del, sounds like someone doesn't like the new price of your molds, still

a steal! If some people would ever go out and talked to other shops about making custom alum molds people would be in shock.

[wannabefishing]

finally someone said it lol

P.S. Bob's mold prices have gone up too

[whitey-o]

Senkos are expensive, but I know several guys in my area that will not throw anything else! Gary is smart....he is really the first plastic manufacturer that has sold his baits at a higher price than other plastic producers....and has been successful.

Look at crankbaits....who would have thought some would be paying 15.99 for one?

[earthworm77]

That reminds me....oh the pain, I lost a Pointer on my first cast with it tonight.....but it was free!

Del, my piont was that there are many large manufacturers who have invested as much if not more than Yamamoto. Their baits cost roughly half. True, supply and demand dictates cost. I still stand by what I said that those baits are way overpriced.

[Delw]

I agree with you earthworm,

[Senkosam]

If the average angler knew what handpourers offered who sell on line, I'll bet many would convert away from manufactured knockoffs that don't come close to the Senko. If a handpoured bait came close to a Senko at less than 1/2 the price, taking into account local taxes, gas, shipping, etc., I think a percentage would go with certain handpours.

Look at Sweet Beavers. One guy on this site sent me samples and I immediately caught bass last season and they had a flat surface! Are RE baits that much better than what we make? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

GY is also presently going on the name to charge more for other styles of baits, so overall we are talking about what and are amazed that the public is willing to pay for the name. The fact of marketing, overhead, start-up costs, time to make each lure, etc., is relevant to all of us and we know that we couldn't get 70 cents a stick or we would!

Maybe it's a little bit of jealousy, but unless we know what it takes to inform the general angling public what we have to offer, the big boys rule.

[jmik26]

Confidence in a bait Nobody is forcing anybody to use any bait, you choose the one that you like before you get to the lake. Doesn't anybody have confidence in themselves, I could use a zebco 202 and the worst senko knock off you could find and still catch fish, thats my confidence

[Senkosam]

Someone, who just ordered from me, was surprised at the price difference between Del and me. Price/oz. is one factor. Then one has to look at a greater color variety in more sizes, smaller unit price for lesser amounts, service (fast delivery, free samples), money back guarentee, low shipping (not based on dollar amount of order) and an immediate response to e-mail inquiries.

M-F has a great color selection, in more sizes and great service, but costs are far higher for shipping and for smaller amounts. So when it comes to dollars and cents, the customer makes up his own mind if dealing with a company is worth the cost and that is where loyalty comes in. Good service is rewarded as long as the product fits the consumer's needs.

Poor service, poor quality control, chronic lack of inventory, little or no feedback = bad reputation, even if the per unit cost is less, eventually result in declining sales. BPS and Lurecraft (before the take over), fit the last statement and have lost a great deal of my business. If the competition fits my needs better and causes me little frustration or disappointment, small increases in price are no big deal.

How many of you are turning in your gas guzzlers at the current gas prices? Even at $3/gallon, people justify staying with what they have, the same as the Senko diehard at 80 cents a worm.

[jm]

If I was producing a product that, like all lures, could be a lemon tomorrow even though it seems to be the holy grail today, and my production couldn't quite keep up with the demand, but is close, I think I would opt to raise the price a little, and take it all as profit, rather than put a bunch of money into equipment, hoping for continued high sales, and basically eating it all if the lemon thing happens. That's the beauty of our capitalistic economic system.

Put another way, some people seem to say a lot about how you should run your business, and some get out their wallet and buy product, not saying anything. Give me the man with the wallet anyday. I will listen to him, because what he says (with his wallet) is the actual truth of the matter, and heeding it is the way to success.

I don't say much unless I feel it will improve something, be it someone's project, or maybe their safety, or just to give them a little laugh. If I have a problem with someone, I will go to that person. Some folks who have done their best to hurt me have become my best, most trustworthy friends. It's a miracle when it happens, but I think that's what Jesus had in mind when he said, "Love your enemies......"

If I have a problem with something I've purchased, I try to courteously get it worked out. If it takes a little effort on my part, like documenting the harm, or a little experimenting to find the answer, I go out of my way a little. Usually things get worked out. Then I've won a friend. On the rare occasion when someone actually stiffs me, I will exercise what rights I have (like filing an eBay complaint, for instance), and quietly go on. I just won't take that person at his word any more, which usually translates to the fact that I'm not available for exploit any more. I will not, however, attack that person in public.

If I meet someone who wants me to join him in attacking, or at least feel mad at someone who has "wronged" him, I will be very careful to not get very close. If I, heaven forbid, should offend him in some way, then I will be the target of hate for some period of time. I think most people feel that way. If you associate with an angry man, eventually one of the backhands will break your nose. There is one seller of very good bait scent that is a poor man because of his anger. It has nothing to do with his product, just how he deals with people.

I think some public apology is due, because the offense was in public. Then, in private, I think a couple of individuals should seek to remedy any actual wrong that is in the way of civility, and set aside the childish bitterness and revenge that seems to be in them. It's not easy, but you would be amazed at what comes out of such a commitment.

hope it helps.

jm