Poor Man's Patent

[Smallie]

There have been some threads that have mentioned what was called a poor man's patent. The thought was that you could document your idea for a custom bait and mail that documention package to yourself. By keeping the envelop sealed, you would gain some protection should someone patent your idea.

Here is something I just stumbled upon. It calls it a poor mans copyright but the idea is the same.

http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp

Hoping that this just affected copyrights and not patents lead me to:

http://patentpending.blogs.com/patent_pending_blog/2004/11/the_poor_mans_p.html

So it appears that the poor mans patent won't offer protection. BUT, it may be worth doing it so you can at least establish when you started making it. It might help for something. Dave

[redg8r]

Good info,

Rodney, our resident patent guru debunked this before, but unfortunately many still put faith in this process.

I contacted Mr. Shaver, the author of the above mentioned blog. He is a patent attourney & fly tying enthusiast who joined us today. Hopefully if he has time, he can help answer these hot topic concerns.

Thanks for the links.

[PS. moving this to "The Docks"]

[KcDano]

Good move Jerry!

[jmik26]

Another great benefit to TU, networking with people.

[gtlegs]

Great job guys

[patentist]

Jerry is being kind when he calls me a fly tying enthusiast. I bought a bunch of fly tying stuff on ebay, over several years, but never got around to learning to tie flies. So tonight I'm going to a class on fly tying that will get me started using all the cool gadgets. So I'm a total beginner.

The comment about the Poor Man's Patent is right, it is not very good evidence. Much better is a hard bound book in which invention notes are kept in a fashion like a journal. The blog post has more about having pages signed, etc.

To prove a date of conception you could also send material to the patent office to their document disclosure program, where it will be date stamped and stored. If you ever need to prove a date of conception, it might be useful.

[jmik26]

Welcome aboard, I can assure you that your in the right place to learn about tackle making.

Does it cost anything to send material to the patent office document disclosure program? I would assume that this is one of the first steps in getting a patent from start to finish.

[KcDano]

Hello Patentist,

There has been some discussion in regards to a "disclosure agreement" or whatever the proper legal description of the document is. Would you consider that a viable method to disclose your idea or invention to companies or interested parties without jeopardizing you patent options?

Thanks,

Dan

[Vodkaman]

You obviously are a young wipper snapper. I used to tie flies myself many moons ago. In fact, before they landed on the moon. Now I struggle to type this message, my eyes are that bad.

My question, Does recording a unique idea on a web site such as TU count for anything? I doubt it.

You should tell us specifically what we should do. Their are obviously many people interested.

C'mon, spill it!

[patentist]

To answer your questions: the document disclosure program just proves a date of use. It really is not necessary in the process to get a patent. The best way to secure a priority date is to file a patent application, but if you have to prove the date of conception, the lab notebook is the best evidence of date of conception.

Young whipper snapperism: I'm closer to 60 than I am to 50. My fishing is on backpacks to mountain lakes, and I fly fish while my son spin casts, and I love fresh cooked mountain trout.

Recording a unique idea on a web site counting for something: It would be evidence for proving a date of conception. If you could prove the conception is followed by due diligence, you could get the patent over a person who filed before you did. But its easier and cheaper to just be the first one to file. Here is what I said in my blog about the Poor Man's Patent (sorry for the repitition for anyone who has already read this rant):

The Poor Man's Patent, or How to Shoot Yourself in the Foot

The urban myth is that the poor man's patent is to send yourself a sealed envelope with a description of your invention. If Mega Corporation then comes up with the same idea, or rips off your idea, you can prove that you invented it first. Because look, the envelope is sealed, and that proves its never been opened, right? And it has a postmark on it to prove when it was mailed, so that's a slam dunk. Right?

Wrong! What this myth is centered around is that in the U.S., unlike other countries, the first person who conceives of an invention gets the patent on it. However, that conception has to be followed by due diligence to reduce it to practice. Filing a patent application is considered reducing it to practice. So you can't conceive of an idea, then do nothing for 5 years, and still get the patent over a person who filed during the 5 years you were asleep. However, there are times when you acted with due diligence, and someone still filed a patent application one day before you did. Then you want to be able to prove when you conceived the invention. Then whoever has the best evidence of conception gets the patent, after a long and costly contest to prove first conception. It's far easier and cheaper to the be first to file, than to have to prove first conception.

But if you do have to prove a date of conception, your envelope would be evidence of that. It would be crappy evidence, but it would be evidence. The gold standard in evidence is the inventor's research book, which is a hardbound book (not 3 ring binder), with blank, numbered pages. In it the inventor keeps a journal of the project(s), and records when he did what in ink. It also has receipts for parts, consultant services, photos, dates phone calls were made, notes when meetings happened, who was at the meetings, and other information that relate to the invention. Each page is also signed and dated by the inventor, and by another person (any person), who states that on a certain date, they read and understood what is written on this page. If you want to be real AR, you could circle the text portion on each page in ink, and link the circle to the signatures, proving that no text was added after the signatures were added. The signature could say, "Read and understood text within circle, Jan 15 2005, signed, Robert L. Shaver."

Bingo, that research book is gold, because that stuff can't be easily faked, and can be verified by other sources, and you have a witness for each page. The other side will find it impossible to refute that evidence, even if they have a self mailed envelope.

So if you are thinking of sending yourself a sealed envelope with your invention disclosure, know that it's not the Poor Man's Patent, its the Idiot's Patent

[KcDano]

Thanks for the info!

[champlainbaits]

Ok, here's another one...what is patent-able? Can you patent a shape of a lure? A concept for a lure? An action?

Just curious...oh and what about provisional patents? Is that worth doing?

[patentist]

Wat is patentable?

Utility patent: anything that is novel (never done before) and not an obvious modification of other technology

Design patent: a new design, such as the shape of a lure, eyeglasses, wristwatch, car body, or any new shape.

Concept for a lure: if the concept fits into the definition of a utility or design patent.

A provisional application is a placeholder, and temporary.It is never examined, and never issues as a patent. It lasts for one year. People do provisionals to get patent pending quickly and for less money, then use the year to round up investors, test marketability, go to trade shows, etc. Then before the provisional expires,they decide if they want to go ahead with a utility application or not.

[nova]

Does posting a picture here help at all to verify the date/time?

[patentist]

You must be referring to building proof of the date of conception? Yes, it would be evidence, but not as good of evidence as a lab notebook, or a patent filing, or a document disclosure filing.

[nova]

Thanks. Good luck in your fly tying classes. I'm probably around your age and I started tying flys at 16. Great hobby; you'll like it. It does take patience though. Don't rush the learning curve. Check out the wire bait gallery for "Buzz" the Mouse and see where it can take you.

If you have a question just ask.

www.novalures.com

www.novalures.com

[ol_grayfeather]

Very valuable information. Thanks... now I have to think of something unique so I can make my millions... lol

[Jason]

Patentist, What about a company name. What does it take to make it "yours"?