jacl Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I have made some swim baits out of recycled maple. The finish looks durable however after a couple of days of fishing it starts to peel off. I am using Zinnser B-I-N Shellac base with liquitex air brushed and finished with a clear coat of Envirotec. What am I doing wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatfingers Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Did you primer it before painting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Here is the obvious place to start: Sounds like water is making its way in to the bait somehow. One coat of E-tex is pretty thin, and some spots will be thinner than others, as any epoxy tends to pull away from edges, like the point of the nose on some lures, as it cures. And, if you are using your etex "hot" or right after it is mixed, your problem is compounded, as it will apply even thinner. It is usually best to wait about 10 minutes after thorough mixing to apply the first coat. After the first coat is cured, give the lure an alcohol wipe, and apply a second coat. Make sure also that you're not creating leaks by installing unsealed hardware such as unepoxied screw-eyes into the lure after your topcoat has cured. I always used 2 coats minimum when clear-coating with E-Tex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apb Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 How did you seal the wood? From your desciption it seems that you skipped this part. If the wood is not sealed, once the clear coat is compromised, water will get in and cause the primer, paint, and clear coat to lift off. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 think I will see what happens here. last time I got into a sealer / primer deal the post got hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 So are you saying that the clearcoat is peeling off or everything? Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacl Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 So are you saying that the clearcoat is peeling off or everything?Skeeter Everything peels off - right down to the bare wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacl Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 How did you seal the wood? From your desciption it seems that you skipped this part. If the wood is not sealed, once the clear coat is compromised, water will get in and cause the primer, paint, and clear coat to lift off.Andrew You are right, I'm pretty new to this business and did not seal the wood. What am I suppose to use for a sealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacl Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Here is the obvious place to start: Sounds like water is making its way in to the bait somehow. One coat of E-tex is pretty thin, and some spots will be thinner than others, as any epoxy tends to pull away from edges, like the point of the nose on some lures, as it cures. And, if you are using your etex "hot" or right after it is mixed, your problem is compounded, as it will apply even thinner. It is usually best to wait about 10 minutes after thorough mixing to apply the first coat. After the first coat is cured, give the lure an alcohol wipe, and apply a second coat. Make sure also that you're not creating leaks by installing unsealed hardware such as unepoxied screw-eyes into the lure after your topcoat has cured. I always used 2 coats minimum when clear-coating with E-Tex. Sounds like good advice. Is there something better to use then E-tex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacl Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Isn't the Zinsser the primer? Or do I need a sealer as was also suggested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomdart Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 OK, let's see about the recycled maple. Maple is a very hard wood and paints and primers don't adhere very well. If you use that kind of wood, you will probably need some extreme sanding to rough up the grain before painting. Depending on the source of the recycled wood, you might have other finishes beneath that prevent your primer/paint from adhering. Strip it down and scuff it up. As far as the specific paints/primers you mentioned, can't help there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apb Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 To seal the plug, dip it in a mix of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. 60% blo to 40% spirits. Keep the plug submerged for several minutes. Wipe off the plug with a rag (be sure to check the blo can for how to safely dispose of the rag) and hang to dry. Probably will take a week to fully dry. If it feels cool to the touch, it is not dry. After it is dry, prime/paint/clear. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacl Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Thanks for the tip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I work with softer woods, some basswood, poplar, but mostly balsa. I seal balsa with E-tex, and poplar with thinned Kilz waterbase primer-sealer, which works fine for these woods. Maple is a different animal, and I'd take Andrew's advice with boiled linseed oil for sure sealing on the lures for which I'd be inclined to use maple, namely toothy critters found in both fresh and saltwater. I use Dicknite's Fishermun's Lurecoat clearcoat for clearcoating these days, although I've used Devcon and alot of E-tex in the past. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Either water got to the bait because something wasn't clearcoated correctly, or there is something in the wood.... (water, oil, or whatever). Make sure that the wood that is used for crankbaits is kiln dried. This process removes most unwanted stuff that is contained in the wood. Everyone is really hung up on this sealing wood thing. All you need to do is wipe on some polyurethane, let it dry, lightly sand, and then prime the bait for painting. If your clearcoat is applied correctly, then the wood is protected. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Everyone is really hung up on this sealing wood thing. All you need to do is wipe on some polyurethane, let it dry, lightly sand, and then prime the bait for painting. If your clearcoat is applied correctly, then the wood is protected.Skeeter If you're building what freshwater fisherman call bass lures, you'd be correct for the most part. However, if you're building what saltwater fisherman call bass lures, and want your thru-wire striper killers to survive a severe attack of the blues to fish another day, then the boiled linseed oil penetrating sealer deal that Andrew recommends is your best friend, as has been proved by trial and error for many years by very serious striper fishermen/lure builders by necessity (factory baits won't cut it for many lure styles). I use a 2 step process for sealing balsa, the second of which is epoxy, to add strength and get a smooth uniform finish. For basswood, poplar, cear, and most other kiln-dried woods used for freshwater bass lures, a primer-sealer, or polyurethane and primer works great. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomdart Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 If your clearcoat is applied correctly, then the wood is protected. Skeeter, agree 2000% when talking freshwater bass baits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apb Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 ... If your clearcoat is applied correctly, then the wood is protected.Skeeter I agree. However, once that clear coat is compromised, you will start to take on water. Once you start taking on water, your paint/primer is going to peal and take the rest of the clear with it. A lot of this will depend on the areas you fish and the species you are after. A fish with teeth will puncture through a clear coat. Bounce a plug off a few rocks, you'll dent up the clear. Etc. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacl Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Thanks for all the advice. My bait is jointed. Usually where it starts to peel is where one section hits another section. Also, when I clearcoat the e-tex fills in the wire joints and I have the work the joint free. How can I prevent this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
