Delw Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Figured I would throw this one in here as well, whats the latest obsession with having an injection machine for soft plastic. I am not talking about professional machines like zorn or for guys on a major pouring business. I am talking about guys with just one or 2 molds and guys that like to make baits for buddies, or guys trying to sell baits online or to stores while they ahve another full time job. The injection process is over rated, too many guys get caught up thinking they can make a bunch of baits thats not entirely true. I get a lot of calls on this, so I figured I would give you my 2 cents to save you from making a big purchase that doesn't need to be made. The most type of baits I get calls about for injection machines are Stik baits. for this unless your pouring over 10,000 per week you don't need one. with sta-warm pots and a bunch of molds you can pour 5000 baits a week easy and even do it after work, I only know of a few ( very few people on this level). heres some examples on what you would spend (approx.) between the 2 and there limitations. Pouring: Hand pouring out of pyrex will pour you a lot of baits per hour, your only limitation is having someone heat the plastic while you are pouring 2-3 mircowaves an 10 pyrex 2 cup measuring cups can make a ton of baits. stay warm pots with mixer about 1200-1500 bucks depending on size or build your own design. to do it right you need about 20-40 molds per bait type ($2000-$4000 not including discounts) total about $3200-$5500 dollars limitations NONE Injection: about $2000-$4500( decent one) again to do it right you need about 20-40 molds per bait type ($2000-$4000 not including discounts) total about $4000-$8500 dollars limitations: a few your plastic will shrink cause voids and you can't top them off as easily( you can but need to use another operation making it more time). your molds will have to be custom built as off the shelf ones wont work just perfectly so you have add'd cost and if you have to goto a local machine shop you can triple the price. your not going to get double or triple colors, you will be limited to one color and one color only. Now if your only going to buy 1-5 molds don't waste your money on an injection machine cause it just is not worth it, the injection machine will have more downtime while you are waiting for the molds to cool so you can take them out and pour some more. with both methods you have to wait for the molds to cool down to be able to take your baits out and pour/inject more. the main problem people have with getting more product out is do to not having enough molds an injection machine , sta-warm or even a home made pot won't help if you don't have enough molds. Injection machines would only be good for 2 piece molds, as one piece molds you would just make a mess, making a 2 piece mold add's in quite a bit of extra cost into the mold as well. so you can't really pour open cavity molds, were as a hot pot type of machine( sta-warm or home made even a lee pot) you are not limited to one type of mold. I should Also note that with just a few molds its probally best to stick with microwave or a home made presto pot, but just one or 2 molds is not worth using a presto pot due to your plastic will be constantly heated and cause it to burn or scorch while you are waiting for your baits to cool off to take them out. bottom line production boils down to how many molds you have not what type of machine you are using to put the plastic in. also you might seriously think about pc case fans to cool your molds or make a rack to hold and cool the molds, this cuts down on a lot of waiting time. Side note, this was not intended to give the idea that people need to buy more molds, I brought this up due to a lot of people call and say they just bought a injection machine or made one and want to know why they can't get there production up, when you tell them they need more molds and they need to be a little different than hand poured type molds( which the cost is going to be higher) to keep production up they kinda get the feeling your just trying to sell them more molds and some get down right upset cause they just spend 2k+ on an injection machine and now they have to invest more money to make it work efficiently. Hope that makes some sence Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Sock Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Dead on post del, I agree 100% I can produce a lot of sticks. It depends on your organization. Pre mixed flake helps a bunch when dealing with multiple colored flakes. Multiple molds helps. I now have 7 -5 inch stick molds and can pump quite a few out. I can stock stores and take care of steady customers without a whole lot of time invested. I must add, I have 3 microwaves and about 20 pyrex cups. Custom plastic containers in 4 ounce size so I can just dump them(plastic) in the pyrex cups. I also use newspaper on my pouring station so I can have a quick clean up, instead of wiping down drips and residue and flake( i always spill flake for some reason). Bags are pre labeled with color quantity and scent type. In an afternoon I can knock out quite a bit of sticks. I also keep some flat molds like gobies and slithers to finish of a cup of plastic so reheating is minimal for leftover. this allows me to have a bunch of sample bags laying around for handouts. If I needed 1500 baits a day i might go with injection set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Reid Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 One Sock, Just as a matter of interest how much plastic would you use on an average day and on a good day? I am just in the process of setting up and am certainly entertaining the idea and thinking I will start with a microwave setup. Certainly seems the most logical way to go initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattlures Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 If you are pouring worms or sticks than you dont have to have an injection machine. HOWEVER if you are pouring large full bodied baits than an injection machine can be a huge improvement. If you know how to use your machine you can eliminate shrinkage dents. Also you go through a lot of plastic pouring a big swimbait so the big machine helps. The LC machine that I bought can be used without pressure so I could pour a ton of sticks if I wanted to. I think the biggest advantage for a worm guy would be haveing a lot of plastic ready to go, but you could do the same thing with a pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Sock Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 One Sock, Just as a matter of interest how much plastic would you use on an average day and on a good day? I am just in the process of setting up and am certainly entertaining the idea and thinking I will start with a microwave setup. Certainly seems the most logical way to go initially. Not sure if I ever have an average day. most of my pouring is limited to evening hours after work. I probably average a few gallons a week. However, on weekends I can go through a 5 gallon container. It depends on how many orders come in. I also like to experiment quite a bit so you can( and i do) wind up using quite a bit of plastic just messing around with color and flake combinations. One thing I can tell you, if you do experiment, always write down what you did. I have had a few times where I have gotten some great baits only to have a hell of a time remembering what I added. Get a good microwave also, with a turntable, it seems to me the plastic cooks consistently with a better microwave, maybe just a confidence thing with me. I'm hooked on frogs right now(no pun intended) so I have been making quite a few. here is one of the latest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Sock Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 ooops forgot the frog..seems i attached it already in first attempt baby bass thread. here is a different one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Bass Baits Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Like Mattlures said, the injection machine we have will do all 3 molds, injection, 2 piece molds and 1 piece molds. I experimented the other day with 2 injection molds, one was a 10 pour trick worm, other was a grub mold. it takes about 20 sec to keep it on the pot so it does not shrink is what I did was hook one up then open the other mold and trim the plastic, close it and swap with the other mold. it takes about 5 or 6 sec. to pour a open 2 piece worm so that is 1 min. for 10 worms were the injection will do it in 20 sec. A person having 2 injection molds can keep swapping out the molds and would need more molds after the molds get too hot to use. One thing I do not like about 2 piece molds that are being made is the short sprue on them, when you know the plastic is going to suck in why not make the molds taller so you do not need to top them off ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Reid Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Yeah I imagine a turntable is a necessity and a good higher wattage unit at the same time repays the investment. The first one we ever had for home cooking was one of the best Sharp or National put out at the time and while a number of friends bought cheaper unknown brands of lesser power and quality as they became fashionable none of them compared and the standard and consistency of cooking certainly was noticeable. The old story: you invariably get what you pay for. Like your frog. The design of that one the first time I saw appealed to me and I imagine it reacts well in the water. I can just see dragging that one over a bit of cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
