Selling in stores

[saint308]

I have a quick question for you business people out there. I never really expected to be able to sell my baits. I was only doing it for fun and friends. However, I have been fortunate enough to have a few people buy from me (about $100/year). Not much, but enough to buy plastic. Now, I have been introduced to a couple of shop owners that have shown some interest in giving me a few pegs to hang some bags. One of the shops is a small shop by a boat launch. They do not do a huge amount of volume, which is what I like. The other is a much larger operation. I am not sure the best way to negotiate here. I think I have seen this topic somewhere, but can't find it. So here are my questions:

1. Should I sell my baits to the shop and let them mark it up, or should I hang my bags and give them a cut of sales?

2. How many colors should I stock of each design?

3. Part of the beauty of hand pouring is the ability to customize. How does the customer from a shop know that I customize, and how do you compensate the shop for custom lures?

I guess if I put bags in a shop, I need to do it legally and get Tax ID numbers and all that commotion. Any suggestions on becoming legal? Thanks in advance. Saint.

[nova]

Sell it to the store and let them put a mark-up on it. It's much simpler for you.

As for colors; the more colors you make(and that can be endless); the more workload you are putting on yourself. That might be alright if you have tons of time; but if you work somewhere else don't paint yourself in the corner.

As for customized baits; just create a small sign to display with your baits saying just that.

Get legal.

www.novalures.com

[saint308]

Thanks Nova. I want to see just how much demand there is before I go buying pouring pots and tons of molds. I have every intention of becoming legal, I just did not want to for $100/year. Saint.

[One Sock]

selling sometimes is harder to do when the stores don't know what kind of sales to expect. If it's a small store you might want to make up a wholesale buying price and a slightly higher consignment price

also how will you pack them? do you have printed labels? or printed sticker labels? that will add value to your product right off from the start. A lot of purchase's in the soft bait industry are based on astehtics(sp) People will pay a lot less for a product that works good compared to one that works good and looks nice. I would also suggest somewhere on the label that you add "not for human consumption", you can never be too careful in this day and age. Good luck with it

[jigfisherman]

I sell to a local bait shop i will sell them stuff about a $.50 -$1.00 cheaper than I do to anybody else that way he marks them up to what I would sell them for. I am not in it to make a killin its more of a hobby as long as it pays for materials plus a little.

[Gloomisman]

There is alot of options here. One I would really think about is a garanteed sale. Yes its more of a hassle and you might get almost all your stuff back. That is the down side. But if the dealer can give you the stuff back he might be willing to take alot more from you. Hince, more shelf space and exposure. Its a tough decision though. Also when selling a bait it all depends on location and layout in the store your bait is. I proved this to the owners of my part time job. We had a ton of gulp not selling in the back of the store. I moved it to the very front of the store on an end cap and organized it. Those red packages arent that fancy compared to some but hung nicely and organized makes a difference. Also make sure your colors and sizes are organized. Nothing ticks me off more and alot of customers is when your looking at 4" worms and have other sizes, makes, mixed in. Now the gulp is flying off the shelf. Its alot to do with location.

Colors like said above dont go crazy on quantity. I would only make the colors that shop sells the most of for the local lakes. If a purple doesnt sell well around there dont mess with it. This way if you opt to go with the garanteed sale you can use your own baits and not have a bunch of poor colors.

Also, another huge bonus here, If there are some guys/kids there that work part time, and are reliable. Give them some of them for free. That way when they are working they can say I've been throwing these, or I've been catching fish on these. You will sell more this way through sugestive selling and using the store empoyees then anything else. Not many customers buy newer baits that no one has used before or knows anything about. They will always turn to Zoom, culprit, etc known brands.

[Gloomisman]

price deal almost forgot. Set a retail price. Doesnt matter but never ever sell less then retail to customers, dealers can sell it for whatever as long as your getting wholesale. Selling less then retail to customer is a good way to lose dealers. Stores you will have to so they can make probably 40-50%. Anything less then 25% profit isnt worth the time it takes to price it on some products imo. Talk to the dealers and find out what they generally mark up product and then calculate from there what you want to sell each bag for.

If you want to get into custom colors leave your name and contact info for custom colors. I would charge more for custom colors then your regular line of baits.

[saint308]

Thanks for the great info guys. I do have labels that I printed on address labels. They are net as pretty as say Zoom, but they are economical. As for the pricing, it sounds like the best way to go is to sell it to them and guarantee to buy it back if it does not sell? For example, I sell the store a pack of Senkos for $3.00 and they mark it up to $3.75. Then I buy back anything they do not sell. If I sell any to individuals, I should sell for more than $3.75. Is this what you guys are saying? Thanks. Saint.

[Gloomisman]

thats what I am saying, but There is alot of risk/reward in a garanteed sale. Its an option but for some not the safest. Like the stock market. High risk can make you or break you.

BTW you dont buy them back for 3.75 you buy them back at 3.00 or what ever you sold them at. Hope that was clear.

I would set a retail price at what you will sell it at. Let it be know to the dealer(s) on a price list. If your going to wholesale a bait at 3 bucks probably put retail at 5. Retail should always be higher then most dealers sell it for. Leaves them area to make a good profit margin. Your dealers will probably want to sell that for about 4-4.5 each.

another thing. If you do decide to go with the garanteed sale. Make sure you got the $ to buy them back. If you do go this route dont make a ton of stock for them. Test the waters before diving in completely. If they are close you can check in on them once a week or somethings.

Say you offer 5 colors. 6 bags of each in this little shop would be a good test. Its only 30 bags, 300 senkos if sold by the 10. 90 bucks.

I'm not saying this is the best option its just one to look at. Need to weigh all these responses and other options and talk with the dealers on their opinions. Dont make a instant decision without weighing the facts and +,- of each option. One option will stand out better to you for your needs then the others.

The reason for you not selling less then a retail price is if the dealer finds out he will probably drop you because your selling it for close to what he buys it for. Its more out of respect for your dealers then customers. Hope that makes sense too.

[Delw]

Saint

I hope to heck your not selling your sticks to the public for $3.75 if you are you are not making any money at all. Never sell yourself short on stik baits. Yamamoto sells them for 7+ why should you sell them for half price.

sell them for a min of $5 to the public, you are just hurting yourself in the long run, the store will probally sell them for 5-7 bucks also. your about right on selling them to the store for 3.00-3.50. I know stores that buy them from customers for 4.00-4.50 and sell them for 7

Bass fishermen are cheap but they will still pay you 5 6 even 7 bucks a bag if they like what you sell. cause if they don't buy them from you then they will just have to buy them from yamamoto for 7.

I hope that makes sence

[saint308]

Del: I sell my sticks $4.00 per 10 pack. I went online and googled hand poured worms. Then I went to a bunch of sites to see what they were selling their sticks for. Most were between $3.75-$4.25. That is how I came up with the price. I also did a cost calculation and figured that was a reasonable profit. I could be way off on this but that is how it has been. That is where I am going to have trouble. Either I will have to wholesale pretty low, or I will have to raise my price for direct sales. I am going to play with the numbers and see what I can come up with. By the way, do you still make 5 inch with no egg sac? I can only find the the ones that taper really sharply to a point, or they have the sac. Thanks. Saint.

[Delw]

Thats the problem a lot of guys have is they sold them cheap then when the went to sell wholesale they had to cut the price in half.

we have had some major stores asking to carry our molds and pouring supplies but we can't due to there is no room to cut our price for wholesale. they said the would buy them for what we sell them for but then I would have to take them off line or mark them up 50%.

when ever you make your own product you take your material and time and than multiply it by 4 that is what retail should really be.

some people who made there own product ( I did all there machine work) before I got in the worm business told me how it worked ( I was starting to build hydraulic Jack plates and looking into automatic trolling motor mounts) this was 8-9 years ago.

yes we still make the fully ribbed ones, same price, just state it on your order as no one really wants that style any more its a confidence thing

[Predator Bass Baits]

Saint, do not forget the 10% for uncle same and then your state tax, mine is 6% that is $.16 on a dollar plus your bag if you use a quality bag

If you sold them to the store for $3.50 your only getting $2.85 for a 10 pack then if it cost you a .8 to make the bait your at $2 then the cost of the bag and the time for a lable,electic, I do not even like the idea of $3.50 to the stores. but selling for over $5 is hard for me to consider.

Then if you claim the money on your taxes at the end of the year uncle sam will take more. ( am I right on this guy's ? )

[GB GONE]

Saint.... Just thought I would chime in quick. I DO NOT discount or wholesale my baits to the 12 stores I am in right now. They pay the same price and can mark them up as they see fit.

The big thing for them is that they have the convenience of the customer just walking in and picking up the bags of baits.

I can tell you that it works just fine as I have several stores in my home town and they sell out in a week of my baits everytime we put them out. The stores direct the customers to my website for when they are out and customers wait until the stores are re-supplied. The customers do not care they are paying more. Many are my fishing friends and club members so they know my website well.

Just like everything else in our lives, customers will pay for convenience!

I went this way so that I had no confusion with pricing or had to have a dealers area or price listing. I have inquiries from stores all the time and I have never had anyone balk at my way of doing things.

I figured just because Zoom and the others do it that way doesn't make it set in stone with the stores. Also, a lot of guys will not order or get on the net so they have no idea the baits may be a little cheaper on-line..

Just my take on things man!!!!

Jim

PS They see stocking my baits as a draw to get the customers in with something a little different. I have exclusive colors in each of the stores (in my town only) so guys will head that way and pick up other things while in shopping.

[saint308]

Jim: Point well taken. I guess I will have to wait and see what the shops say, then I will make my decision. Kinda on the same lines as what you said. Lets say someone calls me from Lafayette (about 50 miles away where I grew up) and wants 2 packs of sticks. The price is $8.00 not including tax. However, I am not going to jump in my car and deliver 2 packs. They can either come get them, pay for shipping or wait until I come into town. There has to be some kind of price on that inconvenience. So if I sell them to a store for $4.00/pack, they can mark it up to whatever. The extra price the customer pays at the store is for the convenience of getting it right there. I believe that is what Jim was saying, and it makes sense as well. However, if I sell to the store @$4.00 and the mark it up 50% then the price is now $6.00. I will just have to see if the public is willing to pay that amount. Thanks guys. Saint.

[GB GONE]

Well, actually, the store would have to decide if the public is willing to pay. I would not consign my baits either. I only pour when I have been paid in full!! I was burned once and that was my fault. Never again!!! You will eventually get burned if you consign. Ask around!

Don't forget, you have something that Zoom and all these other companies can't provide! You will have to remind the store of that over and over again!! They will see it when your baits fly off the shelves.

When I started with my stores, I stocked just the good selling colors (ie green pumpkin, junebug, watermelon red, etc) and just in limited amounts (3 bags of each) but I added one color that I knew other companies did not have. I went with green pumpkin pepper/junebug tails to start. All 3 bags of those were gone the same day we put them out at all the stores in town. Plus, other bags of baits went also. Made believers out of the stores quick! They trusted my judgement after that and now know that I have their interest at heart also.

Marketing is REAL important in the whole deal and letting customers know that your baits are at the stores is important also. It gives the store owners a kick to have somebody come in and say Jim at Ghost Baits sent me here.. That is value Zoom/Berkley can't give them!!!

All of that extra "stuff" is value to the shop owner and will allow them to get enough out of your baits to have them in the shop.

Best thing is just work out something that is comfortable for both parties and it will work!!!

Jim

[saint308]

Thanks for the info. Saint.

[BAssKickin]

All GREAT advice and information given...

More food for thought...

We can also provide our customers something else the big companies cannot...that is "TRUE HAND POURED" baits. I wonder sometime if we are losing our hand pouring tradition with 2 sided molds and these fancy pressure pots. I like that technology has given us the 2 sided mold but we need to remember we are "hand pourers"...or "hobbiests" who can make 3 colors pours using perex cups or production pots...the big guys cannot. Our awesome "contribution" to the fishing industry is our unique ability to make custom colors for our "hand poured baits"...not become just another injection bait maker.

IMO

Good Fishing!!

[One Sock]

SNIP>I would not consign my baits either. I only pour when I have been paid in full!! I was burned once and that was my fault. Never again!!! You will eventually get burned if you consign. Ask around!

Well that depends on the situation. I have a few local stores that I use to shop in prior to hand pouring. Once I took up the hobby, I found that it was easier to get into stores by offering to consign the first batch. I started by putting in 4 or 5 colors and about 3 packs of each. after a week or so they were asking to buy, but they wanted a wholesale price, so i decided i could wholesale, but also required minimum orders for different price ranges 1-100 bags got so much off, 101-300 got a little more, 300 -500 got max discount. Like Jim said, be careful consigning baits. if your not sure how ethical the store owner is. don't do it. i will never consign baits to someone I have not met a few times and anyone who is not within driving distance. i currently have no stores that I consign baits with anymore, they are all direct orders. But it is easier to get into some stores that way. JMO:twocents:

[saint308]

About consignment. The only person I might do that with is the lady that owns the launch. She also works with the Nitro dealer and has been trying to get my brother to join the state team for a while. They have been dealing with each other for a while and I do not think she is out to screw anyone. Saint.

[alsworms]

I will only add one cent.....

Friends become enemies really quick when consignment is the issue. If it works for you......GREAT! Sadly, it has never worked for me. Be careful, believe in your product, and get that moolah up front.

Peace Out.