Master Mold Mishaps Again

[rockylinx]

Im having a problem with my master mold;

I've created a master from wood, sanded molded and sealed this work of art. My intention is to make a pop mold with a couple of banks.

1st failed attempt. I made an rtv mold from the master (the mold looks good)I was going to pour a harder plastic to make it more ridged.What i found is im coming up with problems . I poured the same mold 10x and I had 10 diffrent problems. The problems were not all that bad a little bubble here and there uneven surface, all stuff I could live with if I was pouring my own finished product. Im not, I pouring a duplicate master from a great master into a great RTV mold. I expected a good duplicate master

the question is maybe pouring plastic to mold the original in not a good Idea??

what other semi ridged materal pours like a light syrup that can be molded in Pop (plaster)?????

resin (too hard)

wax (not ridged could have a sealing problem when melted from POP)

silicone (not the right consistency) too thick

a diffrent RTV ( can you pour an RTV into an RTV)????

Run down

1 Have a hard master

2 need a couple soft master copies so i may be able to cast them in POP

3 loosing sleep due to the problem

4 enlarging my bald spot

Thank in advace

Pete the new bald guy

[Willy]

Pete, did you consider casting your master in some plaster? I have had great luck getting detail with pop casts. I made a fluke master, cast it in plaster, poured a few from that mold and then used them to make a production mold. It may work...?

BTW

I went out to the La Jolla kelp this morning and landed a nice 5lb calico and a great big halibut. But the halibut flopped out of my kayak and swam away. Meh!

Good luck brother,

Willy

[rockylinx]

Willy, Thank you for the samples of plasic I could really tell the diffrence.No to the hard stuff

5Lb bass not bad

sorry on the hali

As far as what im doing I cant use the master in plaster. I would have to break the master to get it out of the plaster because its made of wood and has a small undercut.Hard plaster + hard master makes it a problem. I need to cast it something softer and plyable

thats were im confused I need to figure out a way to make my master soft

Thanks

Pete

[Mattlures]

what you need to do is learn how to pour. If your mold is good then you should be able to use plastisol to recreate your master. PRACTICE!!!! Plastisol is the easyest and cheapest way to go. You only need one bait to come out right to make a pop mold. Also if you cant pour a clean bait in your RTV mold you wont be able to pour a clean bait in your pop mold. Maybe your over heating your plastic? maybe it has moisture in it? You just need to keep trying, you will get it.

Also, you cant pour silicone into silicone. They will bond and become one.

[rockylinx]

what you need to do is learn how to pour.

I hate that you said that- but I think your right,After a lot of meditation and a couple of Prozac I came up with the same conclusion

Thanks

Pete

[Mattlures]

I wasnt trying to be condisending. I was just pointing you in the right direction. At least that way you know how to solve your problem. It could also be the plastic you are using. What are you using?

[rockylinx]

Matt, No-I want your input Thank You so much for your opinion. I value your opinion especially a master crafter like you. Your products amaze me, I hope some day to get half as good as you. I just wanted a quick easy fix and there isn't one

My RTV mold could also use help. I was hoping to pour something a little harder so I could shape it due to a flaw in the RTV mold. I cant skip a step, I just need to take it easy and relax and start over. I spent 2 months on my master I don't know why I don't want take the extra steps now

As for as the plastic, I bought a gallon from a friend on this site (lure craft 502) it was taken from a 5 gallon bucket - I started pouring it and it comes out extra extra soft so i ordered hardener and now im trying to find a happy medium.

Thank You

Pete

[Willy]

Pete,

Is it softer than the softest swims I sent you? The reason I ask is those I sent worked well to attract the fish, but one hard bite, and one toothy Halibut and the bait was toast.

Some guys here use salt to harden their baits...

I'm not quite to that point yet, but it may be worth a little research and a try...

Keep it up man,

Willy

keep us posted on your progress

[rockylinx]

Willy its a lot softer than what you sent me. Just think of a big hammer or a fish trap and lay it on its flat side, the tail should be pointed in the up position. My lures the tail wont stand up it fall in a pile of mush

I think people put salt to make there bait heavier so they can cast farther w/o weight

Salt makes the bait tear easer and for us we dont need it

I went fishing today. The action was slow on the bass but wide open on undersized barracuda

Thanks Willy

Pete

[Willy]

Nice graphic!

I understand what you were saying about the salt, I guess I was a bit confused.

Hang in there man.

LOL the 'cuda are always there to make you still feel like a fisherman.

So as not to get this thread too off topic;

You might try to melt those really stiff baits I gave you with a small amount of your super super soft, or just melt the stiff stuff.

The color will be gross, but it may be stiff enough to make a few stiff masters.

I will leave the future posts to those in the know.

hang in there,

Willy

[Mattlures]

Ok I know one of your problems already. Your plastic is not mixed all the way. Lure craft is notoriuos for settling. When you mix it you need to scrape all the hardner off the bottom of you container. Once you thoroughly mix your plastic you will probably not need any added hardner. Plus your soft plastisol masters(actual baits) will come out much better. You just might have your easy fix.

[halibaitor]

And that brings up an interesting question. Are we real sure that the whole 5 gallons of plastic was mixed well when the one gallon was taken out of it??? If it wasn't, it will be VERY difficult to get the right consistency from your pours...

I know that's a nasty thought, but.....

[rockylinx]

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. I'm consistently pouring extra soft bait. I ordered some hardener from lure craft i hope I can get it consistent (any ideas). I finally redid my master It's looking good. I made my pop molds and sealed them with elmer s glue. I mixed it 50/50 with water, I love the fact that it pours easy and looks like it will seal. I should have my first pour this weekend. Im mailing them over to Willy to get his input

Pete

[bojon]

My bet is the plastic was not stirred properly when you got it.Almost all the problems you are having seems to really be that the plastic is not right.The LC plastic will settle in a short time,and if you try to use it without mixing it well ,you will have nothing but headaches.To be honest I would discard the gallon,and buy, from LC, a new gallon and really get it stired before even using a drop.I use a drill fitted with a foot long extension to stir the plastic with attention being paid to he bottom edges.Buying hardner will be the same as throwing your money away in this case,because you may get it to work and you may not.I'm talking from experience about this cause I ran into the same problem.I could never solve the problem till I got a gallon of new plastic.Sorry,but that is just the way it is.

[Cyrano]

http://www.smoothonsecure.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=291_1_10&products_id=186&osCsid=4ee7222d3b8022e90a775d45fbe19fc7

use this in your silicon mold. its easy to work with and can be sanded and machined when cured. makes great masters and works with RTV

this one http://www.smoothonsecure.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=278_279_281_79&products_id=435&osCsid=4ee7222d3b8022e90a775d45fbe19fc7

[earthworm77]

Rocky, nice looking 'chovy. The color rivals Big Hammer. Anyway I have two suggestions...firstly, when I'm pouring saltwater baits, I never worry as to softness of the lure like i do with freshwater baits. IMHO, saltwater species are generally more aggressive and you know if they want the bait, softer plastic will not encourage strikes and as some guys said, they are very fragile. That said try one of these suggestions:

1-Go with a little hardener

2- Go with Calhouns Tube plastic mixed with regular soft pour, it is a stiffer, more durable plastic. It will give the bait more body but being mixed with the soft will prevent it from being hard as a rock.

As long as you do not over do it, the tail should be fine as far as action goes. Hope this helps. I pour some 3 and 4" shad bodies and especially shrimp bodies for snook, trout, reds etc here in Florida and the mix has done well for the durability of the baits. I really don't use salt in my saltwater pours.

[rockylinx]

Bojon, such as life, I think your right-I need new plastic

Cyrano ,Thanks for the links

earthworm, I think your right I need to worry more about durability then softness, Thank You for your input

[Willy]

Pete,

There is another side to that coin...

If your pouring your own baits, losing them to a toothy fish may not be then end of the world. As you may find, Once you start pouring a lot, you'll be using the baits you have laying around to throw at noisy cats in the street.

Toughness is good but it is a delicate balance between wiggly wiggly and durability.

I look forward to seeing some of your work.

Willy

[Smallie]

http://www.smoothonsecure.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=291_1_10&products_id=186&osCsid=4ee7222d3b8022e90a775d45fbe19fc7

use this in your silicon mold. its easy to work with and can be sanded and machined when cured. makes great masters and works with RTV

this one http://www.smoothonsecure.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=278_279_281_79&products_id=435&osCsid=4ee7222d3b8022e90a775d45fbe19fc7[/quote]

Instead of the RTV above, I recommend:

http://www.smoothonsecure.com/store/index.php?cPath=278_279_281_80&osCsid=4ee7222d3b8022e90a775d45fbe19fc7

With Omoo, you mix equal amounts instead of weighing it on a scale. I have used two trial sizes and have had great success with cure times and retaining detail.

Dave