Trouble with Buzzbaits.

[Haulin'Bass]

I make my own buzzbaits and for some reason I can't get them to run straight:angry: . It seems that I have had this problem with other buzzbaits that I have bought too(without a clanker blade). If I put a clanker blade on them they run straight but if it is just the blade then they all run to the left no matter the weight of the lure(1/4, 3/8, 1/2oz). Anyone got any suggestions?

Thanks,

[wavewalker2006]

wire needs be to stright. try bending the arm to , if it runs right. try bending it to the right. if it runs left .bend it to left

[VANNDALIZER]

Look at the part of the blade that are bent over. If one is bent more or less than the other it will effect the way the bait runs. I usually check them by looking at the bait from the front, or where the line tie is. If one is bent more than the other it will be obvious.

Good Luck! MAV

[Vodkaman]

Could you post a pic please.

I just looked up a buzzbait on the net. It was a spinning blade on one side and a skirt on the other. If one resists the water stronger than the other, it will lean to one side.

To correct the balance, the weak side can be bent further out or the strong inwards.

Excuse me for intruding on a subject that I know little about, but all fishing lures interest me and I hope my most humble opinion is valid and helps.

[piddler]

all single blade buzzbaits run to one side or the other depending on blade rotation. you may alter this to some degree by bending the wire but it will still try to run to side. double blade buzzbaits with counter rotating blades will run straight.

[Hillbilly lures]

hey man try making spinner baits and leave the buzzbaits to the people that know that there are different blades ccw and cw bending the wire is like putting fix a flat in a tire ,its a temp job not long term you still got a hole mang. the only true fix different blade rotation or style.if you are using a blade to big can also counter the effect of the weight,thats my opionon but hell nobody seems to want that.....

[Vodkaman]

Hey Billy boy, you just need to calm down a tad, so much agression.

You obviously know more about the subject than everyone else. So why not take your time and try to explain the problem and solution to us all in controlled and coherant manner.

Personally, I am here to learn and occasionally I have to ask a daft question or make a ludicrous suggestion in order to gain knowledge. If I am out of my field of expertise, I say so. But my lack of knowledge does not justify such lack of respect.

[robbor]

I bend the shaft that has the buzzer on it. I try to keep it bent down tward shaft it is parallel to and the tweak it to one side or the other slightly to get them to run straight. I adjust as needed as I use lighter wire frames.

HB your post makes no sense. A buzzer or Sb is basically a plum bob, so changing rotation will not change anything unless your castings are not true.

Flat tire???

[Hillbilly lures]

well where do i start robbor? have you ever had a flat tire on you lawnmower at work when your cutting grass?if you had a can of fix a flat you could fill that tire right back up and bingo right back to work, but you really didnt permanently fix that tire because the piece of metal sticking out of the side of the tire just has a little glue around it holding in the air and when you start your mower next time ,well the tire is a gonna be kinda flaaaaat.hence the buss bait wire bent to counter react the rotation of the blade is really not how to fix the problem..,.,,..

[Hillbilly lures]

how i fix the problem? well what you do is get hold of yourself here it comes yep i offer different rotation blades on my buzzers. well i do this two fold.the big number 1 reason i sell more buzzbaits , pow can you fell that????more money right in the old billfold. momma dont mind .second reason bang bang bang that was my gun just went off no reason sorry ..... oh if you are throwing your buzzer right beside some structure the fishis like it sometimes going the other way like them fellers out in california. try that and when somewon asks why let em know that some dam hillbilly said thats why

[Hillbilly lures]

well for you lay off the vodka... i gots some real clear strong hooch made right in the good ol usa not from them ruskies. if you take a 3/8 buzzer and slide a 2.1 incher blade on that you could slow that down slower than grandma after thanxgivvin diner, throw a sixty strand skirt on there off one of them 18 year old hotties i seen in town and that buzzer will almost float like cusin bubba floatin in his raft down the crick.wanna get nasty ?????? get a frog no not frog a ribbit a metal won and stick it on top of that rusty car on blocks in your front yard and that buzzer is gonna sound like a lepard in heat screamin so loud it sound like you forgot to put oil in your mower robbor....

[Hillbilly lures]

robbor $ 4.00 a shot any color black ,black/blue ,black/red, white any color blade black/ red/ white ,stock.

[Vodkaman]

HBL, it's a deal. But I think that I am going to need an interpretor or a few shots of that hooch you got goin.

[robbor]

Sound like if your buzzbaits get bent they need to be thrown in the trash???

Ill try not to put lawn tractor tires on my buzzbait so I will ever have to make sense about all the bang, bang. I have plenty of spare stanleys left and the last guys who who said he had a better product was a just a salesman.

I tried to look for your buzzbaits online to see if you had a well designed buzzer or just the normal spinnerbait head on a buzzbait form, but I found nothing.

[GB GONE]

Out of my element a little here also guys but I have thrown almost every buzzbait out there (except a Hillbilly one...couldn't find one ) and I have yet to find one that doesn't run to one side or the other. I also have never seen a bait fish run perfectly straight either.

Counter rotating blades are the only way to get one to run perfectly straight that I have found.

Besides, I think the "sqeak" is way more important than the way the bait tracks.

Gotta get confirmation from the Hillbilly though on that to be sure it is right !!

Jim

PS Hey guys, I am from South Georgia and I think I can interpret anymore of them there Hillbilly posts

[BigTimeBuzzer]

Well I might as well add my .02 here...Throw my hat in the ring...Whatever you want to call it...Here Goes....I have been making these things for more years than I care to mention and have found out a thing or two over the years. A straight tracker, though it maybe hard to find, can be accomplished, BUT WHY? Most of the time when you are throwing a buzzer you are throwing at something/around something/trying to get under something/or casting to schooling fish that is busting shad. I have made them with one blade/two blades/three blades/four blades. When it comes to a buzzer there isn't alot that I have not tried in my over a 1/4 of a century ponderings/foolings with these things. There is ALOT you can do to a buzzer to make them SCREAM, besides draggin' it to the lake and back. That will work but can be accomplished in many ways. If you saw a buzzbait that I made and use to fish with you may think it was something I found in a tree that some poor fool had left after a bad night of night fishing. Mind you I dont make them this way to sell as no one would ever buy them BUT I MAKE THEM THIS WAY FOR ME!!!!....WHY, BECAUSE THEY WORK!!!! and WORK VERY WELL!!!....I use to have the $$$ and still have a old trophy or three to prove it....lol. BUT ANYWAYS BACK TO THE TRACKING ISSUE, it is alot of little things that add up to make a big thing work. The head design, for one, common sense will tell you that the bigger something is the more force that water will push against it. Either to lift it/make it go straight/or go to the left or right/or even down. With that said, knowldege would cause you to think, the flatter head that you used, the less PUSH to the left or right you would have to deal with from the water. THAT HELPS...Then there is the hook, the longer the hook shank is, the more the water has to push against it. Same for the skirt, a big full skirt will make the bait fall slower, But it will again give the water something LARGER for it to push. The wire, needs to be straight as possible, BUT it can be shorten from the head to the line tie to make a more compact bait, hence less surface again. THEN THERE IS THE BLADE, you name it and I have tried it, or at least tried what I deemed worthy. I stuck with the blades that turn off center, not the thru-wire models that most companies use today. The blades I use have the wire on one side of the blade and don't cross thru the center of the blade from one side to the other, via a hole. I found these fit my needs the best so that is what I went with and still use today. The blade is what makes the whole thing TICK!!!with the help of the wire that it spins on. The straighter that it stays, the less pull you will have to deal with in forcing it left or right. The smaller the blade, the less force you will have but everyone LOVES THEM BIG BLADES...lol. So you need to watch the cup of the blade...make sure the wholes are inline for the wire to pass thru....many small things add up to DIRECTION....UNLESS YOU (DON'T) WANT IT TO GO THAT WAY....then that is where years of tinkering and T&E come in to play. I came up with a buzzer a few years ago that my brother deemed (THE D.U.I.) that you can DRIVE!!! If you are in the front of the boat and cast it straight in front of you, IT WILL GO TO THE BANK!!!! ANYWHERE that the blade can turn, IT WILL GO....under docks/under overhangs/in and around boat slips/you name it and if the blade can turn it will go there...I made it for night fishing so you want have to cast toward the cover all night long. You cast straight in front of you and it will find the cover all night long, as well as the fish. EVERYONE that has field tested them for me says the same thing, MAN YOU HAVE A HIT ON YOUR HANDS HERE AND YOU NEED TO GET A PATENT ON THIS BABY.BUT SHE STILL REMAINS A WELL KEPT SECRET BUT FOR A FEW THAT PROWL THE NIGHT LOOKING FOR TREASURES!!!!!LOL. So I may not be the greatest guy to help you make something run straight, but like I said before, it can be done, but my question is....WHY????

[Vodkaman]

BTB, good post. Reading between the lines, you are saying that every part of the lure is having an effect on how the lure runs. It all makes a lot of sense. Each component, even down to the hooks will offer resistance to the water, each to a greater or smaller amount. As the lure is retrieved, all these forces will act on the lure, changing its attitude in the water until a balance is reached. If this balance points to the left or right, then it will not track straight.

So why straight? Answer, I want to be in control, to decide if the lure is to be a left tracker, right or straight. I could sell them as such too. Most people who buy a lure are basically expecting something that swims straight, but we know that sometimes that straight is not the best solution as described by BTB.

If you want the lure to run straight (or any other direction) then the balance has to be adjusted. This is most easily achieved by moving one of the forces closer to center or away from center. This is applying the lever principal, the closer to center the force is, the less effect it will have on the overall balance, conversely, the more the ‘force’ sticks out to the side, the bigger the effect on the balance. After the balance has been reached, the lure then moves along the path of least resistance.

None of the above is unique to wire baits, the rules apply to all baits, but on wire baits you have a few variables to play with; size of blade(s), offset of blade(s), direction of blade(s) spin, number of strands in skirt, offset of skirt, shape of head, hook size, hook offset. This does not mean that the balance is going to be too difficult to contemplate, you may only need to tweak one or two to get the balance that you require.

As for the effect of the spinning blade and the requirement of two opposing blades to achieve a straight swim, I am not convinced, but I will not argue against the idea. I understand the thought behind it, ie gyroscopic forces, but these are just one more force in the equation and can be balanced. As far as I can remember, the mackerel spinners that I used as a kid, swam in a straight line.

I could imagine a blade incorporated into the head to deflect the water to one side or the other as a tuning tool, even to impart other movements into the bait like the lip on a typical hard bait. As designers, we should not just simply accept that the thing swims to the left, we should control it.

[BigTimeBuzzer]

There are MANY ways to develop the path that a buzzer will take. All things do effect it's path, from tip to tail. Water is a great force to deal with, and you know it can not be controled so you have to try to control what you can, THE BUZZ BAIT ITSELF. Two blades, turning against each other will make the force equal, from the left and the right, and make it run straight. But two blades, turning in the same direction will cause the pulling effect to continue at double the speed. It is amazing what you can make a buzzer do with a bend here and a tweek there. I am in the process of developing two different buzzbaits with swing arms. I feel that there is a vast area of TWEEKS with these two guys. If my ideas work like they look like they will, I don't believe keeping them in a straight track will be a problem. But then again, this is from a sketch in my head and some ruff drawings, but it looks like it will be a worthy project to persue. Some of the best times in the lure world is in research and development. Then comes the satisfaction of seeing it work like you thought it would and the feeling that it gives you when it does....THERE IS (NOTHING) LIKE IT!!!!

[Vodkaman]

Applogies to Jim. I've had a real hard think on the operation of the buzzbait and the forces from the rotation do play a major part in how it swims.

I do have an explanation, but I am going to conduct some experiments in my testing pond before I present here, I don't want to lead you astray.

Haulin’bass, just to get the facts straight, I am assuming that you are quoting left/right from the fishermans view of the bait coming towards you. From the same view point, is the spinner rotating anti clockwise and swims on the right side of the skirted hook? or totally the opposite! A picture of your bait would really help.

[GB GONE]

The one variable in all of this equation that no one can control is speed of the bait.

If I retreive at a very fast speed, I can make almost any buzzbait track to the right or left. At moderate speed, some still track. At slow speeds, many will come back relatively straight.

Guess you will have to put speed-o-meter on my reel when all this gets resolved at my burner reels do not know the meaning of slooow retreive!!!

More food for thought!!

Jim

[Vodkaman]

I have checked out the gallery, there are half a dozen buzzbaits featured. Some have clockwize, some counter clockwize rotations. Unless I know which rotation is being used for which deviation, I cannot figure anything out.

Quote left/right and rotation as viewed by you, as the lure is retrieved. Also, which side of the lure is the spinner sitting. So the information that I am looking for would be something like; clockwise spinner on the left side, pulls to the right at fast retrieve. Also photos would help.

True, I have not seen a buzzbait let alone used one, but that does not preclude me from comming up with ideas and suggestions. I am interested enough to put some time and effort into this study, I just need a little help from you guys with accurate meaningful feedback. I've tried the local bait shop, they had nothing on the shelves, so I am working on paper.

[Vodkaman]

A valued friend has just informed me that the lure swims in a vertical plane, not horizontal like I imagined, with the spinner on top. Shows how much I know, but I am still going to work on the problem, even just from a learning perspective.