GVF Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 My paint is cracking when I fish my lures down to 80'- 100' or more and I'm looking to find out if any one knows what I can do to paint or coat my lures so I can fish them this deep.I have built them out of different woods (soft and hard) I use enamel paints and a lure /jig finish(clear) Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Most likely the lures are absorbing water, expanding and cracking the finish. You need a tougher clearcoat. I suggest Devcon Two Ton epoxy or similar clear epoxy for your topcoat. Be sure to coat over all hook hanger holes, etc to eliminate water infiltration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 GVF- Your lures probably have something similar to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Pete, MAKE SURE you wipe your lures off with a tack rag after you paint them sometimes this causes cracks and if you get that pressure Hazmail is talking about im sure dust is not your friend.. get all the dust off before you clear coat them with a DUPONT TACK RAG that is what I use... even a tiny bit will screw up a great paint job.. no matter what kind of clear you use.. even DEVCON.. Im just adding to Bob and Hazmail's advice.. they know alot more than I!! I just know if you get some dust on your lure it will show up on the clear and cause it to crack later.. Good Luck The ROOKIE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Hazmail, I think that your solution is spot on. Something that can take the deformation under pressure and bounce back without cracking. The actual problem I feel was incorrect. If a small fault in the surface of the finish allowed water in, then the ingress of water would prevent further compression. In fact another solution would be to drill many small holes and deliberately let the water in. Of course the lure will waterlog and subsequently the paint will separate and the finish peel. But as I stated in the parallel post, the best solution is to construct the body from an incompressible material like plastic. Wood contains a lot of air, if you must use wood then use the densest, heaviest wood that you can find. If I was fishing that deep, I probably would not put a finish on the lure as it won't be visible at that depth. I might even consider not priming and let the body soak. Another solution might be to just go with the deformation. Perhaps a vacuumed bath of liquid latex on balsa bodies. Followed by a thick latex coat. Finish with a paint that can take the deformation and a suitable top coat. Just my thoughts on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GVF Posted September 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Thanks for the replies, Bobp I don’t think I left any place for water to enter the lure and waterlog the lure and if they are in the water for only 15 minutes the paint cracks. Hazmil ,I do understand the problem is atmospheric pressure that is compressing the finish and or paint on the lure I have made some from soft wood(cedar ,pine) and some on hard wood(basswood) and they both cracked. I have store bought wooden lures that I have fished that deep with no effects (lymans). I was hoping to find out what they use but some secrets are hard to get. I think it’s the clear coat that has to be tough enough to withstand the pressure or malleable enough to move. I will have to try both and try some on plastic stock If I was fishing that deep, I probably would not put a finish on the lure as it won't be visible at that depth. I might even consider not priming and let the body soak.. I have also thought about using a stain on the lures since the color isn’t as important at that depth. The clear I used was not a 2 part finish and I thinking that the finish is most important to get that depth Thanks again Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjbass Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Use devcon 2 ton and it will stop the problem. Listen to Bob, water seapage is your problem. There is no way the paint and finish will crack unless water is getting to your bait. I frequently fish for lake trout on downriggers with my cedar baits at 100 ft depths. The finish and the paint never crack. Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 A modest amount of water absorption will cause wood fibers to expand and crack finish, and running lures at 100+ ft is a severe test of water absorption. Crankbait clearcoats don't have much resistance to wood expansion. Notwithstanding several atmospheres of pressure, I still think toughening the clearcoat is the first place to look. I'm having a hard time believing your little submarines (especially the hardwoods) are reaching "crush depth" at 100 ft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellure Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Do you have a close up image of the cracks?...fracture, spidering, veining, dimpling, impact, central or multiple points, etc,...a magnified look at the lure cracks will offer answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GVF Posted September 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 The cracks run the length of the lure and are fractures.The lures were made to hunt Kokenee and I have been fishing them off a downrigger at 80' and have one or two I droped down deeper(90') I have some 6" lures I use for Macks and those have been down to 120' I have ordered some Devcon 2 ton resin and will be giving that a go any tips on how to apply it to the lures, brush, dip??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Alot of guys fish my Assassin at close too 200 ft depths at times so I have some experiance here..Both good and bad..LOL.Everybody is right..it is water getting in under your top coat and or paint.At those depths,water just doesn't soak in, it is litterly pushed in...Your thinking to your self..I've got a good top coat on..doesn't matter..the water is getting in at the the edges of the face of your lure..(Trust me on this!!).Epoxies don't like edges,and you need to be rounded off those edges too get a good seal.Also make sure you put some epoxy on your eyescrews too seal them aswell..Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmetto Balsa Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Would a better wood sealer solve most of the problem with the water getting to the wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Actually,it possible for water to get under your top coat..and not under your paint at all..during my learning process with this..(which is still going on..LOL) I had some baits come back that had the top coat and paint color blown out..but still had my white base coat intact..The preasures at those depths in unbelievable..Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Dilute the Devcon 2T 50% with acetone or lacquer thinner to use it as a waterproof undercoat on bare wood. Brush it on undiluted for your clearcoat. It's critical to mix it thoroughly. I do it in a jar lid lined with tin foil and mix with a piece of plastic. I mix enough for 2 lures at a time. You have about 5 min. before it gets too thick to brush. No panic, but keep things moving. Don't overbrush (it makes for bubbles), apply with the idea that you're "laying it on" but be sure the paint is wetted out all over. Devcon is a thick clearcoat and has excellent leveling properties, the best I've seen on any clearcoat. The lure needs to be alternately hung up/down for the first 30 mins or so to prevent the epoxy from migrating. Rotating on a lure "dryer" is easier if you have one. You can clean the brush with acetone or lacquer thinner. Once cured, epoxy can't be removed with solvents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesehead Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I reccomend warming your raw wood lures to about 150 deg F prior to coating with a base sealer. 5-10 minutes in a toaster oven will suffice. The air in the wood will expand during the heating process. as you apply the sealer the wood will cool causing the sealer to be drawn into the wood fibers. I did this recently with some Muskie lures and noticed a much firmer wood surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cullin8s Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I dont think it has anything to do with the topcoat, just the air inside the wood expanding and busting the topcoat. I have no idea how to overcome it though other than maybe trying a "foamy" or featherlite lure rather than wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjbass Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Then explain to me why my baits don't do the same thing when I am fishing the same depths. Do you think I am not telling the truth???? It is inferior top coat, trust me on this..... Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Dwain, The air in the bait is compressed at depth. When the bait is retrieved, the air returns to its original volume, it cannot expand any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 From here, it looks like a good start would be a decent quailty topcoat, with a bit of build, it appears to be pretty thin whatever it is. Like every one is saying it's probably the water, weather it is forced in or sucked in , it is going to bust any finish. I have seen a wood chip bust a cast concrete slab 6" thick, it's how they split marble- granite etc, wood is just an amazing 'product' good and bad. And after all wood expanding is how they have kept (keep) sailing ships afloat for god knows how long, before that Ark, they reckon. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmetto Balsa Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 GVF, What steps are you going through after you shape you bait? Sealer, what are you using to seal your baits? Primer, what are you priming with? Paint, what type of paint are you using? Topcoat, What did you use? When did you install your hardware? What type of wood are you using with these 2 baits? This should help us to resolve your problem. Your photos of the damaged baits were great. Sorry about the cracks, because I know you put a lot of work into these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikeman Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 I don't know if I'm wright on this one but here is my guess : Had similar problems and realized that I'm not sealing the lure as I suppose to. I use plastic cups mixed with thinner , I let the lures in this solution for about 6-8 hours ( overnight ) then let them dry for about 5-7 days , I know it is a slow and long process but I tried painting the lure after 2 days of drying and the paint cranked under the topcoat when the lure got into the water , so I realized that it was a problem of temperature or pressure. Ohhh I forgot , after the 7 days of drying I dip the lure in the solution fo 6-10 times and it gets a plastic surface on it (I think u can use Bobp's idea of mixing Devcon2TON with thinner and apply it over the lure also). Don't forget to sand before applying paint. P.S. I went at the seaside for about 5 days and I forgot 2 lures in the jar with plastic cups mixed with thinner, when I came back I was surprised to find out that the lures where on the bottom of the jar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Then explain to me why my baits don't do the same thing when I am fishing the same depths. Do you think I am not telling the truth???? It is inferior top coat, trust me on this.....Rod Rod we don't know that his topcoat was inferior, it could have been that they forgot to tell him to warm it at 400 degrees F for 2 hours, for a complete cure, or it could have been an application error that wouldn't have shown itself for 8 years in shallow water use. Under this kind of pressure, merely allowing a bit of paint to stand proud (uncoated) of the clearcoat on a hook hanger can cause failure. Sealing must be 100%, and if you have paint on a line tie that isn't covered by clearcoat, then the bait isn't waterproof no matter the amount of clearcoat on the rest of the bait. Unless the paint is 100% waterproof, the pressure will cause it to wick moisture beneath the clearcoat causing failure. Merely switching to Devcon on a bait with distinct sharp edges has its own terrible learning curve, as Nathan pointed out, and I expect no one here has coated more lures with Devcon than has Nathan. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjbass Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Dean, I was merely giving him another choice of top coats. I guess I assumed all the other things were taken into consideration and I could have explained myself better. Sometimes I forget that the obvious is not that obvious to some. Didn't mean to sound defensive or argumentative. I have used just about every top coat on the market and for my taste I like devcon. Mainly because it is tough and I build Musky baits also. I do build baits for lake trout out of Cedar, seal them with Swede's concoction, prime, paint and 3 coats of Devcon and fish them at 80 to 100 feet and have never had one fail. And yes I do make sure all the sharp edges are rounded and that extra care goes to lip, line tie and hook hanger attachment and sealing. I have built hundreds of baits using this method, so I do know a little about devcon and sealing baits...... Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GVF Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 WOW you guys are great I have been looking for info about helping me make my own lures right and in just a couple days all this info ...its just great.I cant thank you all enough.(I just wish I found this site before I painted all those lures.) I went out yesterday to test out the motor(a whole other bunch of issues there) and put some lures in the water I didnt fish below 20' and when I inspected the lure I noticed it had cracked. Not much pressure at 20' so I have to believe that my finish is failing and water is getting under the paint as said. GVF,What steps are you going through after you shape you bait? Sealer, what are you using to seal your baits? Primer, what are you priming with? Paint, what type of paint are you using? Topcoat, What did you use? When did you install your hardware? What type of wood are you using with these 2 baits? This should help us to resolve your problem. Your photos of the damaged baits were great. Sorry about the cracks, because I know you put a lot of work into these. I have been using spray paint for the primers and finishes some are model paints some are multi use. Early on I was dipping them in vinyl paint .As for sealing I haven't done anything(big mistake right?)The top coat is a seal coat by component systems a one part clear. The eye hook for the line is installed and left in place to hang the lure while painting I make the hole for the hook eye before painting and install after finish.I dip the threads in gorilla glue before installation. Most of the lures are basswood allthough some are redwood ,ceader, pine. The one in the pic is basswood. Please feel free to send a PM on ALL steps I should be taking to create a paint job that will handle the depths Im looking at. I will file them for reference in my computer. Do you think I will be able to coat the Devcon over the clear coat I have all ready put on? Or am I destined to sand down the lures and start over sealing them first.The ones in the singuture pic are 1.5 in but I have 30 5-6 in x1' plugs finished ready for Pryamid lake Nevada next month:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikeman Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 .As for sealing I haven't done anything(big mistake right?)T here is your problem 100%, your lure is soft, like a sponge so the pressure could cause the paint cranks or the water getting to the wood will make the "sponge" inflate , hope u understand what I'm saying over here cause I'm not so good at english...my apologies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
